Tuesday, 25 March 2014

Bidders Special

A reader recently made the following interesting suggestion:-  

One thing we should doing to help NAPO is to think about the questions that preferred bidders might want to ask the MoJ when it comes to negotiating the final contracts. In my view it will be at this point that it will be impossible for MoJ to get away with being unable to give the detail of how things will work in the contracts. So we need a list of questions to pass to NAPO to send to bidders as a sample of the questions they might want to ask the MoJ in order to understand the complexities of our work and how it will work in their contracts. 


In order to simplify things and because both potential bidders and the MoJ read this blog, lets have the discussion here. So, as a public service, this is the first in an occasional series of blog posts that aims to help clarify some of those little teething problems that still remain to be ironed-out before the TR omnishambles  can be deemed 'fit for purpose'. We return to the author of the original suggestion as they get into their stride:- 

Questions on subjects such as:-

Projected numbers of under 12 month custody cases? 
Expected breach rates in these cases? 
Success or otherwise of new court allocation processes? 
What happens to payments if people have multiple Orders? 
What happens if someone on a Community Order is sent to prison for a few years for an offence committed before the start of the CO? 
How will payment be calculated for the following (sample) of Court Orders or combinations of these:-

-12 month CO with 30 day RAR, and mental health treatment requirement
-12 month SSO with 25 day RAR and 9 month DRR
-18 month CO with 40 day RAR and 6 month ATR
And any of the thousands of variations that are possible.

What if someone on 18 month Community Order completes their 30 day RAR within 12 months but in their last appointment explains they are ready to relapse into heroin use or become homeless - is there any contractual obligation to support them for the remaining 6 months of their Order given that they have used up all of their RAR days?
What happens if a service user misses his appointment in Bolton and re-appears in Weston-Super-Mare?
What happens if an under 12month YO belonging to Gt Manchester is in HMP/YOI Doncaster (a different CRC area),or a female prisoner belonging to Cumbria is in HMP Styall (again a different CRC area)?
Will CRC service users have access to Approved Premises?
If a risky service user from north Wales is working in London for a period, will they be allowed to report to the local CRC office in Lambeth? 
Will video-conference facilities be shared? 
Where someone is recalled due to very risky behaviour, would CRC staff have to attend Oral Hearings if called as a witness? 
Will CRC staff have to provide progress reports to Court where this is asked for? 
What happens if a Court breach fails because CRC has not provided adequate information? 
What happens if we believe UPW hours are unworkable but NPS disagrees? 
Under what circumstances would CRC staff be expected to undertake home visits? 
What happens if an Order is amended (eg UPW hours are removed and Activity days imposed)?
Is there any obligation to pay travel costs for service users? 
At what point will an under 12 month custodial sentence be over if the person is continually recalled? 
Is breach of a Community Order deemed to be a reconviction? 
Is breach of a non-molestation order deemed to be a reconviction? 
If a CRC member of staff sees someone on their caseload committing an offence (eg, smoking cannabis, DWD) do they have a duty to report that to the police given that a PbR would depend upon no convictions?

Indeed that last question is can of worms in itself - if a CRC get an extra payment for there being no convictions, should they be obliged to compromise this by reporting any witnessed illegal activity?

There must a few dozen such questions we can helpfully provide preferred bidders to ask the MoJ. Of course if the bidder became unhappy with the responses (or more likely lack of responses), they might decide to pull out, and where would that leave the MoJ in terms of contracting that CPA before the election?


Actually on that last point potential bidders might like to cast their eye over this fascinating report on the Management Today website entitled 'How did the UK outsourcing industry get into such a mess?'  Here are some extracts:- 

The odd thing about these foul-ups is that it’s not only union officials and those who feel their jobs are threatened who delight in taking the moral high ground and bashing them, but also Tory ministers. Take this classic of the genre, from justice minister Chris Grayling: ‘There has been a culture within parts of Serco that has been totally unacceptable, and actions which need to be investigated by the police.’Pretty strong stuff. And the outsourcers are peeved. More than that, they feel betrayed about the way that government talks about them, on the one hand coming to them cap in hand to help make their ever faster, ever deeper cuts, on the other slagging them off when things go wrong.


‘I don’t think it helps their cause to be so antagonistic,’ muses a senior person at one outsourcing company. Another described the government as being ‘hostile’ towards the industry. One of the outsourcers sees the government’s attitude towards them as part of ‘a climate of being anti-big business’. He added: ‘The rhetoric is against big business, against the big outsourcers, banks and utilities. I find it curious that there is so much of this rhetoric, rather than a balanced commentary.’ Another adds, wistfully, that ‘maybe we all expected an easy ride from a Conservative government’. They feel that the Government is asking them to do complex, difficult things in a rush, and that ministers’ glee in slapping them down when they go wrong is cheap and nasty.
cont.......
‘Some people have resisted the agenda and are defending their commercial position and not improving in the way we’d like to see,’ says Crothers.

More of the same is on the way. The Cabinet Office’s new Commissioning Academy will teach 1,500 public servants to be better at procurement by 2015. Traditionally, government buyers have concentrated on negotiating contracts, but they’ve realised that if you want the market to do certain things, then ‘market design’ is also important. In future, they will spend more of their time on the early stages of the procurement process, before the tender is even sent out.

As Crothers puts it, you need to ‘understand how you are going to package up what you are going shopping for’. If you go to market with a $1bn contract, you will get the usual suspects pitching. If you break it down into 10 £100m contracts then you open up the deal to new, smaller players. In future, the government could ‘spend months engaging with the market, holding roadshows, having conversations, listening to why they may or may not bid, adjusting contract terms and how you go to market. That way you maximise the degree of competition,’ Crothers says.
 

They also want to get tougher on contractors that try to change terms after the deal is signed, causing value to leak away. This is all specifically designed to bring more entrants into the market, and reduce contractors’ profit margins. ‘We all pay a lot of tax, and if I can help us get to the point of paying less tax, then great. It’s for the public good,’ Crothers says.
There may be trouble ahead, all the same, because as well as making procurement more competitive and complex, the government is also asking outsourcers to do much, much harder jobs. The disability assessments, for example, try to reduce people’s unique sets of difficult, individual circumstances to a box-ticking exercise. Evidently, this tool is not up to the job.

According to the DWP, in 2011 10,600 people died within six months of being told that they were fit to go back to work, and people with untreatable degenerative illnesses have been told that they should get jobs. Clearly something is not working, but Atos ends up shouldering the blame for a mess that is far from entirely of its own making.

There are broadly four problems with the way the government is changing its outsourcing regime. Firstly, as mentioned above, in its haste to get things off the balance sheet, The government risks trying to outsource things that it shouldn’t, or can’t. It’s pretty easy to work out if the bins have been emptied, or if someone is collecting fines or answering phones within four rings, but when it comes to things like probation, or getting people back into work, measuring performance is much murkier.

In probation, for example, there are ‘lots of interfaces between probation and other services so there’s interaction to manage’, says Tom Gash, who has written several reports for think-tank the Institute for Government. ‘It’s also hard to say who or what has helped to stop an individual from reoffending, so it’s hard to measure the value the contractors add.’ 
This is an especially big problem, as another government mantra is ‘payment by results’. The big outsourcers say that some of the problems with things like electronic tagging arose because they were being asked to do difficult tasks on a scale never before undertaken – problems were inevitable.


Secondly, and relatedly, there is the problem of risk transfer. Politicians are keen to shift the risk for some services into the private sector. It’s nice to be able to blame an outsourcer when there’s a prison riot. But outsourcers need to be paid a fair price for taking on that risk, and that is not an easy calculation.

Take, for example, the case of employment services, where they are taking on the risk of the labour market. As Harries says of the mooted deal to outsource probation services: ‘Of course, the principle of introducing competition into probation is absolutely right but anyone who says they understand all the risks involved is taking quite a big punt.’


Then there is the specific question of reputational risk, as these deals come under more scrutiny. ‘We are in an era when things like transparency will be built into contracts, and the industry needs to get used to that,’ says Harries.

He says that government too often puts confidentiality clauses into contracts, but this has to change. ‘We need to move to a more mature relationship, and a recognition that these deals will be scrutinised. That might push the price of contracts up but it is the price of doing business with the taxpayer.’
Thirdly, if government goes too fast, it risks having no bidders for some contracts. Gash says that ‘in some cases, there is a limited capacity to respond to opportunities. So in the south-west and other rural areas there isn’t much competition, and if you let lots of contracts out at the same time, providers might not want to bid for all of them. The market may not be ready to respond to opportunities, it takes a while for providers to get up to speed.’This is especially likely if, as per the government’s new strategy, you want SME s to do the work. A tender with no bidders is no use.

And, fourthly, there is a drive to make outsourcing more varied, encouraging more joint-ventures and mutuals. There is a sound reason for this. Gary Sturgess, an academic expert in outsourcing who used to work for Serco, says: ‘One of the flaws in the contractual system of competition and contracting is that it is such a powerful tool for driving down price that that often trumps the need to be concerned about quality.’

Government is notorious for choosing the cheapest tender. Contracts can also get too big. ‘I’ve seen contracts that are too complex, that are over 1,000 pages long,’ says Iain Gravestock, a partner at KPMG. ‘When you are trying to understand the performance measures and metrics it gets to a point where contracting can introduce too much complexity.’

The complete article is well worth reading, especially by potential bidders and will help inject a bit more reality into the situation, in stark contrast to PR nonsense such as this:-
The Opportunity:

In ‘Transforming Rehabilitation: A Strategy for Reform’, the Secretary of State for Justice set out plans to introduce a new system for the management and rehabilitation of offenders in the community across England and Wales that will begin in April 2015.

This new system creates competition processes to encourage the public, commercial and voluntary sectors to work together and deliver ‘what works’ to reduce reoffending. The emphasis will be on consistently engaging offenders, changing negative behaviours and providing the motivation to work, developing positive relationships and constructive lifestyles.

This represents a massive opportunity for voluntary sector organisations who can provide these services for offenders.

Offenders have complex needs and cost-effective innovation will be required to produce results and receive payment. Large commercial prime contractors are currently developing strong partnerships in contract pack areas with the voluntary sector and linking up closely with prisons, probations services and the police.
 Cumbria is in a contract pack area with Lancashire and there are six prime contractors in the process of bidding for this £20M contract (approx.). 
The winning prime contractor is likely to contract 2nd Tier providers to deliver these services. Each 2nd Tier provider will be responsible for a specific area of delivery and, in turn, manage a group of 3rd Tier providers who will work at a local/community level.

Who we are:

Living Well Trust, Brathay Trust and the Community Development Foundation have formed a partnership to trade in this area called Cumbria Desistance Partnership (CDP).

We wish to engage with the prime contractors to deliver high quality provision for the rehabilitation of offenders in Cumbria and benefit communities across the county.

The structure requires specialist provision at local and county levels to support the rehabilitation of offenders and we would like to hear from any organisation who would like to deliver their services to this target group.
Register your interest now if:
      You deliver any services in Cumbria for offenders
      You would like to deliver a service in Cumbria for offenders

Please complete the attached form ASAP and return it to:  

Please forward this opportunity to anyone in your network who might be interested.
I'll round this first 'bidders special' off with some information from readers regarding the prime probation property that successful bidders can expect to be occupying shortly, courtesy of the MoJ:- 

There have been bidders’ visits arranged in the next month, for them to look at a carefully chosen selection of probation premises. Bidders, you would do well to check a few things before you sign on the dotted line.

Pre-bid Visits

You will probably only get to see the buildings that are in reasonable condition. Almost certainly you won’t get to see the 19th century buildings in a very poor state of repair, but they certainly do exist within the probation estate. You will be quietly steered away from these sites. You will need to establish how much your company needs to pay in order to get all the sites up to a reasonable standard -- the MoJ certainly hasn’t got the money to do it. Ensure the visit results in a representative sample being shown to you, and get an accurate and independent assessment of the repair costs involved.

What if you want to relocate later?

If the CRC initially share a building with the NPS but then want to move to a new site, there may be hidden costs. Make sure there are no contract clauses that oblige your company to bring the previously co-located NPS staff with you to the new site. You may also be obliged to heavily subsidise the NPS space in this event. The MoJ don’t want to get involved with all the overheads that come with a relocation, nor do they want to be left paying full price for a half-empty building after the CRC move out, so they may write the contract in such a way that minimises these risks for them.


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If the MoJ has a list of sites they don't want prospective bidders to see I'd say Margate would be on there.

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In the midst of terrible sadness and despair, something very funny has happened this week. For a reason unknown to man nor beast, the MoJ have decided that the office to be displayed to bidders in the whole of Xxxxxxxxxxx (which includes Xxxxxxxxxxx and Xxxxxxxxx) is...Xxxxxxxxx!!!! . My Colleague who will be working there that day – yes she’s the only one – has been told to expect 11 bidders to turn up and have a look around but that she should carry on her work as normal. The part time admin has been asked not to whinge when they come in.  

Let me tell you about Xxxxxxxx office. It’s a two up two down terraced house. On the Ground floor, there is a tiny reception office with a part time admin. Where the understairs cupboard would be, there are two chairs next to each other. That is the waiting room and there is a little interview room used by IOM and all agencies. On the next floor up,  there are two rooms that go from left to right off the stairs. One is the PO’s one is the PSO’s. This is where they see all the clients. They are little tiny rooms. In the windowless basement underground, there is a tiny kitchen area, secure file storage and a staff toilet.  That’s it.
Firstly 11 people won’t fit in, secondly I hope they haven’t come far and might need a wee. Because the only toilet is in the secure file area, we have to send all non staff to the public toilets down the hill.

14 comments:

  1. Hmmm, as CRC staff will not be officers of the court, they will presumably have no voice there unless invited to attend and give evidence. So, no reports of any kind will be admissible unless, as with medical or other specialist reports, the court specifically requests them and pays for them.

    And without the role of officer of the court hanging over your head I imagine there's no longer any inherent professional responsibility to report offences, just the same duty as a member of the public. Which is fine & dandy for the CRC as it doesn't compromise the profit incentive. And perhaps, like Serco or G4S or Atos or others have already shown, if staff choose to record favourably for the benefit of their employer, it merely adds to the PbR. And if the favourable recording is exposed, those members of staff are put to the sword and a mere fraction of the gain is offered back to MoJ as 'compensation'.

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  2. Several thoughts on this

    Firstly, second and third tier providers only get the PbyR if the Prime (Tier 1) achieves their target, so there is a risk factor for tier 2s and 3s. They should only bid if the FFS will cover their running costs otherwise they face a threat to their existence. You only have to see what happened to a significant number of small charities/ providers who became involved with the job sector contracts.

    The issues about staff in CRC is fairly irrelevant there will only be a few ex-probation staff left as the Prime`s see CRCs running on an average of £20k per member of staff with a few well paid managers to cover. That is why CRC staff will no longer officers of the court.

    The detail questions you raise will be batted away as detail, it’s the constant line the MOJ are using, “yes we have the answer and it will be out shortly”. The reality is they have no idea how this is going to work, unofficially it is all “it will be alright on the night”.

    This process is being driven by political will with no real interest in Probation or an understanding of how it works but an aspiration that it will work somehow

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  3. Another great blog today....hope people start asking questions of their trusts too. Awkward things regarding co-existence - i.e. who will ensure new staff are familiar with all H & S stuff; for example what to do when an alarm is activated by a colleague in an interview room. Will CRC staff attend for NPS colleagues and vis versa? Who will write up the incident report etc etc.

    I am also angry that TR has largely high-jacked this blog and forgive me for going back to practice. I was reflecting on the book issue again..soz, but like most contributors have said, books offer far more than just a good laugh, or help pass a few hours. I recall once trying to get a copy of a particular book, 'a million little pieces' to an inmate at one of our jails. He was serving a long sentence and his drug problem remained as intrusive and damaging as it had been when he was at liberty. I was told I couldn't send him the book and it was not in their library. So, not to be put off, I booked a visit for 1.5 hours and took the book into a visit, where I gave him a brief introduction to the book and asked him to read from page 54 - 87. I got on with some other written work but I was conscious of how he was reacting to the text. He put the book down on completion and was silent, for about 10 minutes before he asked me how he might get a copy. He made a note of the title, author etc so that he could put in a request of the library to order a copy or get it on loan fro another jail. This small intervention provided an opportunity for us to discuss the issues around drug use, not from his point of view, which had remained uncompromising, or mine, someone without first hand experience, but from Jimmy's point of view....through his brutal memoir. I don't know how to measure success in or line of work, but to provide the impetus and opportunity for people to make those changes which will improve their life chances has to be, at least a measure of our humanitarian efforts. Somehow, I do not see Mr Graylings vision being anything but destructive.

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    1. I hope no-one thinks it bad form to go off topic and return to the book ban, but with the strength of feeling from so many quarters, I really believe that Grayling and the MoJ are in quite serious trouble. People are begining to question just what is the thinking behind some of these reforms, and probably more importantly just what is your qualification for introducing them? I believe the petition has already surpassed some 12,000 singnatures.
      I'd like to highlight this reasonnably lengthy article which in the latter paragraphs draws attention to the probation sell off to the private sector, and asks the question why is this man if he's interested in rehabilitation and effecting a reduction in crime, selling off a public service thats credited with a 34% success rate in the reduction of crime in the past decade, and trusting it to agencies that have no knowledge in this field.

      http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2014/03/25/prison-book-ban-the-questions-chris-grayling-must-answer

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    2. I agree about Grayling realising he is in a big hole over the so called book ban issue. Obviously it is misreported because folk do not understand the wider IEP issue of which books being banned are but a part, albeit a very important part.

      Grayling who usually ignores criticism forced on him or obfuscates with stock phrases containing the number 46 has himself written about it twice in 24 hours and Wright was sent on to The Today Radio Four programme where he ducked the first question and refused to speak direct to the author Mark Haddon.

      Now there are reports in the Los Angeles Times and it has been picked up in the Huffington Post.

      All wonderful opportunities for us to respond in the comment boxes linked to those articles and explain the issue in relation to wider problems in prisons and probation.

      I have linked some of those posts from Grayling and the Wright interview on the Napo Forum

      http://www.napo2.org.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=588#p2821

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    3. Last night, Chris Grayling wrote a piece for Politics.co.uk defending his ban on prisoners being sent books. Here we highlight the questions and inconsistencies raised by his response.

      "Let's be clear about one thing: prisoners' access to reading material is not being curtailed."

      This statement simply cannot be true, by virtue of the reforms Grayling has himself implemented. Section 10.4 of the Incentives and Earned Privileges guidelines reads: "To ensure that the Incentive Earned Privileges scheme is not undermined the general presumption will be that items for prisoners will not be handed in or sent in by their friends or families unless there are exceptional circumstances." Because these items include books and magazine subscriptions, it is simply a matter of fact that prisoners' access to reading material has been curtailed. The justice secretary is disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

      "All prisoners may at any one time have up to 12 books in their cells. All prisoners have access to the library, irrespective of which institution they are being held in."
      At no point has anyone denied that prisoners still had access to prison libraries. As Frances Crook wrote in the piece which sparked the row: "Prison libraries are supplied and funded by local authorities and have often been surprisingly good, but so many libraries are now closing and cutting costs that inevitably the first service to feel the pinch is in prison." Prison libraries are subject to spendings cuts and are naturally very limited in what they have to offer.

      Furthermore, with budget cuts hitting the prison system, there are frequently not enough prison officers to take prisoners to the library, leaving many inmates having to wait days before they can make a visit.

      "If a prisoner has engaged with their own rehabilitation in prison, then he will be on a higher level in the Incentives and Earned Privileges scheme, and so would have more money to spend – on books if he so chooses."

      Although he later goes on to briefly make the case for the role of reading in improving literacy, this sentence shows that Grayling fundamentally views books as a reward, not a part of the rehabilitation process.

      In recent days authors have celebrated fiction's ability to improve empathy and imagination. This is plainly true, but the reason reading can play such a fundamental role in rehabilitation is more sombre: at least two-thirds of ex-offenders have the literacy and numeracy levels of an 11-year-old. Work is the best route out of criminality, but this leaves them virtually unemployable. Any reading material at all is a benefit for inmates because it makes them more able to survive in society without recourse to crime. Any restriction on prisoners' reading is unacceptable.

      The ban on parcels also serves to desocialise and dehumanise inmates in a way which does nothing to improve their prospects once they leave jail. Within a month of the rules coming into force, inmates were denied Christmas parcels from their family. The 200,000 children in England and Wales with a parent in prison were no longer able to even send them a Christmas present. What possible good could come of such a policy, especially given the strong arguments that connection to the family helps mitigate against reoffending? Authorities should be facilitating strong family bonds, not standing in the way of them.

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    4. http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2014/03/25/comment-grayling-has-shown-his-true-colours-with-prison-book

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    5. Prison is a punishment. Depriving someone of their liberty so they can't go shopping, can't spend time with their family, can't go down the pub with their mates is one of the most important powers in the gift of the state. But unfortunately it's a power the state needs. It's an undeniable fact that we live in a society where people do bad things - sometimes so bad that being sent to prison is the only option.

      But being in prison also provides a big chunk of time when something can be done to put people back on the straight and narrow. We know that 90% of those behind bars today will be free, walking the streets, within a decade. No-one wants these people to go on to commit more crime, create more victims and more human misery. One crime is obviously too many, but we must also do all we can to make sure the first crime is the last crime.

      We know a lot more than we used to about the best ways to stop re-offending. For example, the best prisons already deliver programmes to tackle prisoners’ underlying problems, such as mental illness and addiction. But we know it's also crucial that prisons give offenders the right sorts of skills and social networks so that on the outside they can secure a job, a home and a family – the core ingredients for a settled, law-abiding life.

      But the odds are tough. Prisons are full of life's outliers. We know this as the stats are startling. Two-fifths of those behind bars have a reading age of an 11-year-old, 59% regularly truanted from school and 42% were expelled. Almost half have no qualifications whatsoever. And these are just the statistics on education. Listing these depressing statistics isn't to excuse criminality but to show the mountain to climb if we're to equip prisoners with the things they need to stop a drift back into a life of crime on their release.

      That's why reading is so crucial and why Chris Grayling's books-for-prisoners policy has got him in hot water, with even some Tory MPs criticising his approach. Yet this particular policy has exposed the wider mess the government has got themselves into on prisons and rehabilitation. It was only four years ago that the Tories championed a more compassionate Conservatism and talked of a rehabilitation revolution delivered through small, local prisons centred on work, education and skills.

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    6. I may be wrong, but didn't event the Nazis allow books for POWs in Red Cross parcels (obviously excluding Tunneling For Beginners & The Bumper Atlas of Europe)? Regular viewers of the NOMS intranet homepage will be familiar with the sorry parade of wrong'uns convicted of smuggling bad things into jails - usually bent HMP staff and contractors - probation staff seem pretty straight in this respect - very little mention of dodgy books.

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    7. More problems for Grayling are looming. This from the F.T. (paywall)

      Chris Grayling, the Justice Secretary, is under mounting pressure to act over fears that thousands of prisoners will bring compensation claims for being held beyond their minimum sentence.Ministers face the prospect of a torrent of claims over a backlog of prisoners being held for months and even years after completion of their minimum term.One prisoner in Erlestoke prison in Wiltshire, who was given a minimum sentence of seven months, has now spent seven years behind bars.

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  4. Some prison libraries - at least - accept donations of books - or used to - otherwise they are dependent on the public library system in their area - but a major problem is the small amount of time prisoners get to visit the library and the difficulties if library time clashes with a solicitor's visit or a medical appointment or such like.

    The books issue is really getting criminal justice some serious media attention for a change - we need to gate crash that party!


    Might victory be near?

    http://www.napo2.org.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=588

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  5. In their latest note, the Napo leadership say, 'Judicial Review is not a panacea and industrial action remains vital.' At the moment JR is like the dog that won't bark and Napo is forever saying we are going to do it...soon...now, it seems when they get NEC approval. Napo likes to set up straw arguments over JR. Who ever thought it was a panacea? Like pulling out of the Probation Institute, JR becomes another line in the reaction to TR. I was interested to read that industrial action remains 'vital'. I wonder how vital it will be regarded once the next one is over. If so vital, then why no rolling strike programme?

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  6. Could anon 0954 provide a link to substantiate the '20k' comment. Not saying it's wrong but if it is an assumption or a fact needs clarifying.

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  7. Does anyone know how the Mutuals are shaping up in all of this? My understanding is that until and unless they win (what could well turn out to be a booby prize) they do not really exist.

    When (if!) they do win, who is in the Mutual, is it all CRC staff? Is it just those that worked on the bid? What does the Mutual then own - is it just a small slice of whatever bidding vehicle they established with a partner..or is it the CRC? If it is just the former, what do the staff in the mutual actually do for a day job post competition? Mutuals are staff owned/controlled companies - I'd like to understand which staff own the winning mutuals and how are CRC staff to be involved in their governance and ownership post share sale

    I'd much rather, on the face of it, be working for a CRC (which is my destination - I hope not final!) that has been won by a Mutual - I just wonder whether it will make a material difference in how that CRC is run and whether a broader staff group will get a look-in.

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