Yes or No to Pay Offer? 4

Seen on Facebook:-

I qualified as a PO in 2005. I Loved my job. Then TR hit and I was automatically placed with the CRC due to holding an IOM caseload. I am told we are not being considered for any type of pay rise in the foreseeable future. I have remained in NAPO since I started as a TPO but now wonder if it is right for those of us in this position. I am delighted for those of you in HMPPS. But please remember we are no longer all in the same boat.

Thing is you are better in the union than not. I’m considering a protest no vote as CRCs haven’t got this pay rise.

Katie Lomas I understand the frustration, we all feel it! Napo are working on CRC pay too, a “no” vote in the NPS offer won’t help us to negotiate with CRCs, a “Yes” vote helps as CRCs don’t want to lose staff to NPS... none of us wanted the split and we are doing what we can to challenge the plan to continue it but we have to work with what we’ve got. All CRC members should have received a Napo briefing explaining this, if you didn’t contact Napo to make sure your contact details are correct.

I am fully briefed and it was with the news of the pay offer for HMPPS that our NAPO rep and others approached top management to gain an understanding if they would be considering following suit and the answer as I am told was a flat no. One other thing that is not being mentioned is that it is difficult for a P.O with a long service history to just jump ship as they lose all their service.

And, if the vote swings no, no one will get a rise and Napo will have no way to pressure CRCs to give a rise. This is called cutting off nose to spite one's face.

Whilst your CRC management say they won't follow suit, there will be a lot of pressure from both Napo and staff, particularly staff deciding to take up open NPS positions for the better pay package.

Also, do remember, that CRCs are different employers from NPS and negotiations are done totally separately at the insistence of the CRCs.

You are certainly better in a union, without it there would have been no pay rise! Who will you have sat by your side in a capability meeting due to huge case loads, in an SFO hearing, fighting for terms and conditions with the employer?

As said I am in NAPO and will continue to be, for now. But please take on board there is no pay rise on the horizon for CRC’s.

However Napo are now fighting hard for the CRCs as well. They had to start somewhere and it’s logical to start with the main employer and then go out to negotiate with the rest having set the bar with the NPS. The CRC members have not been, nor would be disregarded or forgotten.

I think if we are to continue to make every probation employee feel equally as important then we need to be careful of the language we use. I could question your reference to NPS as the main ‘employer’ when CRCs employ more probation staff than NPS. Language can make individuals feel second in line if we are not careful. My point however tonight was only to raise the plight of your CRC colleagues in reference to the current pay rise negotiations currently taking place for NPS staff. I would like nothing more than to be in looking to the future like our colleagues in Wales who will be reunited once again as one probation service.

Xxxxxx you are absolutely right in regards to use of language and my intention certainly wasn’t to make anyone feel “second in line”. I used the phrase “main employer“ in relation to the NPS as being the organisation making the rules through being a government led organisation as opposed to the different companies running each CRC. And you also right that we need to be mindful of people in the CRC who are not yet getting a pay rise, and like yourself I too am hopeful we will be one service again.

My confusion had stemmed from believing from what I had read in the early communications which seemed to suggest that I would definitely be jumping to the top of the scale in April 20. When I read the collective agreement sent out Monday on the intranet I couldn't understand why it did not mention it. I get it now but I’m not sure how clear it had been made originally. I know I’m not alone in how we first understood it.

I agree. As ever the devil is in the detail.

I wish we had some detail. The more I look at this half deal the less happy I become. For me it is all up side, because I am at the top and so am not affected by the lack of information on the "Competency Framework". But the rest of you toiling up the bands are being sold a blind deal, as we drive over brexit cliff into a recession. If you honestly believe that this will not be "sadly overtaken by events" then you are in my view overly trusting.

Detach this offer from the "Modernisation agenda" (even give up the non consolidated bungs, even though that is over half of my "offer") and then negotiate "Competency progression" or as I like to call it "Performance Related Pay" without the bribes. Then I would vote for it. As it stands, the best you will get from me is an abstention (Which given you need 51% is a de facto vote against).

--oo00oo--

My CRC have said no to matching the NPS offer. Is this the scenario across the land or have any of the CRCs said yes??

Sodexo are giving 1.5% for 2018-2019; in addition to the incremental increase already given in April 2018. Further pay negotiations are ongoing....

Which CRC are you and who runs it? Sodexo have basically stuck two fingers up and said 1.5%. Although they are trying to sell it as 2.5 by including their contractually obligations of an incremental pay increase.

I'm the DLNR. They have only committed to the 1% incremental payrise!!

RRP run it. It's so disheartening that they clearly couldn't give a stuff.

Ingeous is a big partner, Cgl and St Giles Trust form the RRP.

And not one give a flying shite Sodexo here as well. Unimpressed.... X

Working Links Wales South West and Devon.& Cornwall not honoured the increment yet ....in meeting with them later today....not hopeful .

This is why national bargaining should not have been broken up.

And most likely why it was.

Warwickshire and West Mercia increment only . Don’t want to be bearer of bad news but CRC colleagues will not get anything like NPS offer this side of new contracts.

It's absolutely disgusting.

I agree but unfortunately that’s what we’re dealing with. CRCs will not pay unless forced to.

Is there not an argument for the pay rise under the tupe laws?

TUPE deals with what is done at the time of transfer and not afterwards. The arguments will have to be made through the negotiating structure - backed up by a campaign.

As national bargaining has been given up each area will have to fight on their own...which is hard if you haven't got reps with enough facility time.

Thanks for the clarification. I asked as I have a colleague who now works for an outside partner agency but was TUPEd across and each time there is a pay change he then uses that to fight, and get, an equal pay change.

More staff will move to the NPS... just so unfair as no one asked for these splits to take place and yet everyone suffers (both NPS and CRC) as a result.

--oo00oo--

This from the Napo General Secretary's most recent blog post:-

Pay Ballot produces a surge in Napo membership

While the team here do their best to respond to incoming enquiries about the NPS pay offer, we had cause to issue some further clarification following reports we have received from members who were confused or angry (or both), following contact with UNISON members or having seen other non-Napo literature. It’s here again if by any chance you have not seen it.

Our approach to this offer has been one of honesty about what it provides and what it does not. I trust in our member’s judgement to make their individual decision in the ballot based on what it means to you personally, but also I hope, what it means for your pay going forward. Let me be perfectly clear: the quantum amount of money available for this deal could never be enough to redress all of the injustices suffered by our members. Nevertheless, when I compare this to the scores upon scores of pay deals in which members of your negotiating team have been previously involved, this is undoubtedly the best offer that we could have achieved in the current climate.

I never assume anything, but a good pointer to how Napo members are viewing this deal and how they are engaging with non-members, is the surge in membership applications to join us (and have a say in the pay ballot) that have come in over the past week.

I think this vindicates our decision to recommend the offer and say why; rather than the easier option of just putting it out there and relinquishing responsibility.

Ian Lawrence