Tuesday, 13 October 2026

Lived Experience

As I was waking up this morning to the 6am BBC Radio 4 news broadcast, I couldn't help a wry smile because that bloody "£700 million and 1,300 new officers" got yet another outing as a further tranche of 650 prisoners are released.  Anyway, the subject of 'lived experience' and the death of former prisoner and PO Bob Turney raises yet another aspect of our enforced takeover by HM Prison Service and it's damaging effect on probation. As we know, ViSOR vetting amongst other hurdles now makes Bob's story impossible today whilst probation remains shackled to HMPPS and civil service control.

Obituary: Bob Turney, ex-prisoner who became a probation officer

Bob Turney, who recently passed away, was an inspiration to me and others when it came to changing our lives. There is nothing more inspiring than seeing someone in as low a position as yourself actually making a change and making a difference in the world. Bob had served 20 years in various prisons, mainly for petty offences, then went on to gain a degree in Forensic Social Work. In 1997 he became a Probation Officer – apparently the first former prisoner to do so. He was also, along with the late Bobby Cummines OBE, one of the founders of Unlock, an organisation set up to support former prisoners and offer practical help.

Bob was also a patron of the Longford Trust. I met him at the Trust’s annual lecture in 2016, when Unlock was awarded the Longford Prize for its work supporting ex-prisoners. He was a decent man and very supportive of former prisoners who had turned their lives around.

In 1997, Bob had his first book published by Waterside Press, a memoir titled ‘I’m Still Standing’ with a foreword by the great prison reformer Lord Longford. Bob also collaborated with Angela Devlin on a book called ‘Going Straight: After Crime and Punishment’.

Bob went from being a down and out street drinker and petty thief, a former prisoner with supposedly no future, to a well-respected figure in the criminal justice world. And, also, a respected writer. A father of five, he will be sadly missed by his family and many friends. A true legend who never gave up hope.

Overnight, a contributor highlights why it matters:- 

For me this from HMIP Insights sums it up the importance of people like the late Bob Turney.

“In other words, rehabilitation is a forced approach aimed at fixing the problem (the offender) whereas desistance is a subjective journey whereby the individual makes their own decision to change their lives for the better. In recent years, desistance has become central to probation work (heavily influenced by the work of Shadd Maruna and Fergus McNeill), and as a former probationer turned desistance scholar, this is something I welcome. Over the years I have had many probation officers, all of whom were trained social workers, and their approach was very nurturing and our rapport was essential to developing trust. There was, in essence, always a desistance-based approach – even if not officially – with practitioners being very encouraging to help probationers find their way towards a better life. At the same time, probation has also veered over the years towards risk-based approaches; I can recall that in 1998, during my final weeks on probation at North Tyneside, my probation officer told me she was planning on retiring because of the major changes in the service. “It’s going to become more like the American Parole Officer approach” she said.“

“Outside of the academic world, ex-offenders are routinely employed in prisons, and it seems that prisons have come a long way. Prison governors are much more proactive towards ex-prisoners’ involvement in prison mentoring and drug counselling and the need for such intervention has now been recognised by the Ministry of Justice who have pledged to roll out more updated and nuanced training and inclusion of diverse groups including ex-offenders. In terms of ex-prisoners working as probation officers, this is nothing new; Bob Turney and Allan Weaver (also see Hylton, 2015) are well-known examples of how people with extensive offending backgrounds can make an invaluable contribution towards the criminal justice system.”

“I continue to draw on my past experiences when teaching students and undertaking research which is personally satisfying because I know I am making a difference. Most importantly though is that prisoners’ and ex-prisoners’ voices are being heard and their experiences are being taken seriously. For all those involved in the overseeing and delivering probation and criminal justice services, the core message is that there is significant value from giving people with a lived experience a voice, ensuring that this happens in way which is collaborative, non-tokenistic, sensitive, respectful and inclusive.”

Of course yet another loss to the probation service has been the involvement of volunteers, a route by which many gained first-hand experience of a role much misundertood by the general public, but later became some of  our most valued colleagues.

A reminder that with the Napo AGM and conference in Newcastle, I am going to be at The Mile Castle Wetherspoons on Grainger Road near the railway station on Thursday from 6pm in order to meet any colleague old or new, up for a chat.

25 comments:

  1. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwzrdnrrmgymo

    About 650 more offenders will leave jails in England and Wales early on Tuesday in the second phase of the government's plan to tackle the prison population crisis.

    The group will include offenders serving up to two and a half years for crimes.

    Under the new rules, they are leaving jail after serving a third of their sentence behind bars, rather than half.

    The second wave of releases comes as the government takes its plan to radically overhaul criminal courts back to Parliament - but also as probation officers prepare to vote in a ballot that could lead to a strike over pay and workload.

    Some 700 offenders left jail early on 1 October - all of whom were serving terms of less than 19 months.

    Tuesday's second stage begins the process of releasing batches of offenders serving increasingly long sentences - culminating next June with those serving more than 12 years.

    Napo, the probation service union, said the releases have put enormous strain on its members, who are charged with monitoring the offenders in the community.

    Typically, those being released should expect to be electronically tagged and subject to other monitoring conditions for the second third of their sentence."

    napo are targetted, as expected, after the triumvirate split - and the beeb are happy to repeat the govt's slamdunk without giving context::

    "On Tuesday, Napo 's members will meet to discuss next week's vote, which could lead to strike action.

    Probation officers have been offered a 5% pay rise by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ), while it had demanded 12% as part of a plan to make up for loss of earnings caused by cuts from 2010.

    The MoJ says the offer is fair and has been accepted by two other unions and is twinned with a £700m investment in probation to recruit 1,300 extra officers and the roll-out of AI tools to cut the workload of monitoring offenders."

    the article continues:

    "Court reforms

    While the second phase of prison releases gets under way, the government is bringing its criminal court reform plan back before MPs, after announcing a week ago that it had abandoned the most controversial element of it.

    The revised plan drops proposals for a new form of Crown Court where a judge alone, sitting without a jury of ordinary people, would reach a verdict against suspects facing up to three years in prison.

    However, jury trials will still be scrapped for the most complex and long fraud cases - and another 5,500 trials will be kept in the lower magistrates court by ending a defendant's right to ask for a jury trial.

    The government says it will expand the use of so-called "blitz" or "short trial" courts after pilots have shown that grouping similar cases together can speed up their progression through the courts - cutting backlogs.

    One of the pilots at the Old Bailey led to the London backlog of 500 cases concerning assaults on emergency workers being cut in half over the summer.

    A major review of criminal courts by former appeal judge Sir Brian Leveson recommended more virtual hearings for defendants to slash wasted time bringing them to and from cells. The government has now ordered pilots for defendants to appear direct from police cells.

    On Monday, the government announced it had accepted more than 150 of his 180 recommendations to modernise the criminal courts.

    It has rejected his advice to retain a restriction on volunteer magistrates that means they can only jail an offender for 12 months. Under the government's plan magistrates will have the power to jail for up to two years - the aim being to keep more cases out of Crown Court, to help clear backlogs."

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    1. dominic casciani on bbc breakfast - edited to imply that probation staff fit tags followed by a ian lawrence, fresh from a makeover, complaining that the prison releases mean "practitoners will have maybe 8, 9, 10 or 11 new pieces of work".

      That is NOT getting any sort of message about the situation to the public/bbc audience.

      What is a "piece of work"?? FFS!! Is that really what £120k a year buys?

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  2. The story of Bob Turney is remarkable. So, too, is that of David Honeywell, the author of the HMIP article. I was struck by the fact that he became a Probation Officer in 1997 and apparently believed himself to be the first former prisoner to do so. I wonder whether that was indeed the case, and how many other former prisoners have since qualified or gone on to become Probation Officers?

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    1. It is a good story and all power to him.. It's more remarkable because the real trend in probation is to diminish ex offenders . I knew of one guy who Qualified . Then his previous caught up as trends changed and he was pushed to a point he went. Probation went heavily into DV as evil unfixable and his face no longer suited.

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    2. I feel that regardless of the obvious barriers that now exist for anyone with lived experience wanting to work in probation, the nature of todays probation service, the shift from social work ethos to enforcement and compliance, makes the probation service a very unattractive career for anyone with lived experience to pursue.

      Staying a bit off topic but I've just seen this, and it might be fascinating to put it in a jar, put it on the shelf, and just see how it develops. I think no good will come from such a move, but I'll watch wait and see.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv5yn0j7n4x9o

      'Getafix

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    3. I recall stories of this happening to a few. I remember this too, when it was actively encouraged, documented here. For me it’s the pinnacle of rehabilitation and desistance, when the poacher becomes the gamekeeper. I agree though, only if it means progressive probation work instead of all that was despised.

      ‘Prisoners today… professionals tomorrow’
      https://insidetime.org/comment/prisoners-today-professionals-tomorrow/

      In summer 2021, the government pledged to recruit 1,000 prison leavers into civil service roles
      https://www.civilserviceworld.com/news/article/kpmg-to-support-moj-campaign-to-get-prison-leavers-into-work

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    4. News that former offenders could be considered for probation officer positions, under government plans to recruit 1,000 more probation staff, confirms a growing realisation that such people can have a positive rehabilitation role to play when supervising probationers and people released on licence. And better late than never – it’s a proposal which was highlighted by Inside Time over five years ago.

      This hiring drive will see the probation workforce grow by 29% by 2021, according to the Ministry of Justice (MoJ). Some 800 probation officers are already in training, and an extra 1,000 will be in training by next January. This hiring boost comes as the government prepares to bring all probation services – monitoring all offenders on licence and serving community sentences in England and Wales – back entirely under public control next year after inspectors said there were ‘fundamental flaws’ in part-privatising the system.

      A register will also be set up to keep tabs on staff qualifications and to ensure more ‘professional accountability’, like making sure employees are completing required training. Efforts are also being made to make the workforce more diverse and hiring people with ‘broad and varied life experience’, according to the MoJ. It said new methods would be used to select the ‘most capable candidates, regardless of their background’, and this would include people with convictions, ‘where appropriate’.

      Earlier this year, an inspection report said probation bosses needed to review their approach to recruitment ‘to better address the under-representation of Black, Asian, minority ethnic and male staff in the workplace’. Women make up most of the workforce and it is thought the types of qualifications sought in previous job adverts may have been a factor in this.

      But the proposal of recruiting people with convictions is not new, for it’s an idea which has been steadily gaining support amongst probation staff themselves. As long ago as 2015, Jamal Hylton of the London Probation Trust came out publicly when identifying within the probation service potentially useful parallels with other problematic behavioural areas.

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    5. Writing in ‘Probation Journal’ Mr Hylton stated: “Increasingly, the experience of recovering alcoholics, smokers and patients etc., has been used by policy makers, managers, practitioners and their respective support agencies as sources of expertise and learning, whereas use of the rehabilitated ex-offender/ex-prisoner has been lacking”. Mr Hylton cited the experience of former serial offender Allan Weaver. Despite his criminal antecedents, Mr Weaver gained a degree from Strathclyde University and ended up working on the right side of the criminal justice system – as vividly described in his autobiography: ‘So You Think You Know Me?’

      But despite the desire by some former offenders to turn their lives round when working within the criminal justice system, there are many barriers to overcome. However, as Allan Weaver has proved, they are not insurmountable. It is also Mr Hylton’s view that: “With the right conditions, the offenders of today do become professionals of tomorrow and I believe this is acknowledged by most probation and rehabilitation professionals as it is part of our ethos and underpins our duty to our clients.”

      A study by Kavanagh and Borrill (2013) suggests there are many former offenders aspiring to work within the criminal justice and rehabilitation services. Mr Hylton believes this to be a positive message for the supported clients of these services that there are already individuals being recognised not only for changing their past behaviours, but for meeting the suitability criteria to access desirable professions and succeed at varying levels after making positive and lasting changes to their lives.

      So finally, birth has been given to an innovation that has had an unnecessarily long gestation period. So much so that Kent, Surrey and Sussex Community Rehabilitation Company, which monitors low and medium-risk offenders, now uses people with criminal convictions to help with supervision. According to a report in The Times, the idea came from offenders themselves. “They wanted the opportunity to speak to people who had made mistakes and come through the other side”, said Lisa Udale, a senior probation officer.

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  3. Getafix 08:45 - if they plan it properly, basically what probation England and Wales used to be. Can’t disagree with Fergus on this.

    “It is a view shared by Professor Fergus McNeill, who lectures in criminology and social sciences at the University of Glasgow.
    He said: "If you're introducing compulsory supervision while a person completes a sentence in the community, you need to make sure your probation service is properly resourced and the effort is properly targeted.
    "The key thing is not to intervene more than you need to in the wrong cases and in the wrong ways, but to focus your energies where it can have the most positive effect."

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  4. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/oct/13/second-wave-early-prison-releases-overcrowding-england-wales

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  5. Napo is pleased to confirm that Lord Chancellor and Justice Secretary Alex Norris MP will be joining our AGM this Thursday.
    At a critical time for probation, discussions about pay, workloads, professional standards and the future of the service matter enormously. It is important that the experiences and expertise of probation and family court professionals inform the conversations shaping public policy and the services on which communities rely.

    Our AGM brings members together to reflect on the challenges facing our professions, strengthen our collective voice and consider the action needed to secure a sustainable future for these vital services. Members and colleagues can register to attend in person or online.

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    1. any chance of someone wheeling out the cpo?

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    2. Mr Norris is joining and speaking at the conference but not taking any questions...

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  6. Seen on Twitter:-

    "EPoP is such a simplistic and unhelpful approach by Probation to the importance and value of lived experience. Interventions and treatment that probation provides and/or enables is only part of the bigger picture of rehabilitation and recovery which is usually sustainable."

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    1. I saw this response on your Twitter post of this blog. It’s a shocking view, particularly from someone who has been speaking on Channel 4 about probation as a former SPO.

      The Engaging People on Probation (EPoP) initiative is about much more than interventions and treatment. It incorporates feedback, inclusion and mentoring from people who are, or have been, on probation. One of the biggest shortcomings in probation policy and reform is the failure to sufficiently incorporate the voices of those most affected by decisions: staff and people subject to probation supervision alike.

      If this approach also creates pathways for people with lived experience of prison or probation to train and work as probation practitioners, then that should be welcomed, not dismissed.

      There are too many voices in probation that rightly advocate partnership working with the police, prisons and other agencies, yet seem far less willing to extend the same principle of inclusion and collaboration to the people probation exists to work with. Lived experience should not be treated as a simplistic or peripheral addition to probation practice. It should be recognised as a valuable contribution to developing more effective, inclusive and credible services.

      Partnership and inclusion cannot be principles we advocate for other agencies but deny to the people probation serves. Shame on you.

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    2. Or wrongly. There can be a lot of problems with partnerships with the police, least the culture.

      Epop is promoting and working with lived experience. It’s part of a national programme. It is helpful and is part of the bigger picture, any who think it isn’t haven’t taken time to understand what it is. When it works, it works.

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    3. Absolutely. Never been a fan of IOM.

      “… schemes no longer focus exclusively on these types of offenders and current performance is “disappointing”.

      https://hmicfrs.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/news/news-feed/government-programme-targeting-prolific-offenders-has-lost-its-way/

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    4. Integrated Offender Management (IOM) was supposed to bring together police, probation services and other agencies to identify and manage repeat offenders in local communities.

      HM Inspectorate of Probation and HM Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue Services have found schemes no longer focus exclusively on these types of offenders and current performance is “disappointing”.

      Chief Inspector of Probation Justin Russell said:

      “Persistent offenders who commit high numbers of burglaries, robberies and drug-related crimes cause havoc and leave people feeling unsafe in their own communities.

      “Originally, IOM provided targeted and intensive support to the most persistent offenders that aimed to tackle factors that contributed to their crimes, such as homelessness and substance misuse.

      “Overall, IOM now has a much lower profile compared to a few years ago and individuals are no longer getting priority access to much-needed services.”

      The two inspectorates last studied the programme in 2014. At that time, inspectors found “promising” performance with the right offenders being targeted, some excellent information sharing between agencies and good rehabilitation work.

      The Ministry of Justice and Home Office – who share responsibility for the programme – refreshed the approach a year later. All offenders can now be managed in this way, although those who have committed sexual, violent or terrorist crimes are usually supervised under separate arrangements.

      For this report, inspectors looked at a sample of cases from seven regions and found almost 40 per cent involved offenders who pose a high or very high risk of harm to others. Domestic abuse was a concern in more than half of the inspected cases.

      Inspectors found the decision-making process was unclear at times and case files did not always record why police and probation officers used this approach to manage an offender. Around two-thirds of inspected plans did not spell out what individuals would be required to do as a result of being managed through a scheme.

      Inspectors found less than half of the offenders in the inspected sample had access to the drug or alcohol misuse services they needed.

      HM Inspector of Constabulary Wendy Williams said:

      “In most of the areas we visited, Police and Crime Commissioners supported local schemes and some provided additional funding to improve access to services.

      “We found police in some regions were more actively engaged in the delivery of rehabilitation work than probation colleagues. For example, officers were helping individuals to complete benefits statements or taking them to appointments.

      “Most of the police and probation officers we spoke to as part of this inspection did not receive any specific training in managing offenders using this multi-agency approach. Training needs to be prioritised, especially for officers working with domestic abuse perpetrators or who are involved in safeguarding children and vulnerable adults.”

      Inspectors found the government’s Transforming Rehabilitation programme had a negative impact on partnership working. In 2015, seven National Probation Service divisions and 21 Community Rehabilitation Companies replaced 35 probation trusts – this created new challenges as each organisation had its own priorities and needed to buy into the approach.

      Today’s report calls for greater national leadership to ensure proper oversight of the programme. The two inspectorates have also recommended improvements to data-gathering and evaluation.

      Mr Russell said:

      “In Wales, IOM has remained a strategic priority and has strong leadership and governance in place. However, there is a lack of leadership of the programme in England, which has resulted in schemes operating independently of each other.

      “There is no mechanism for reporting information to government departments or for learning and best practice to be disseminated more widely.”

      At the time of the inspection, the Home Office’s system to measure the impact of the programme was only in place in 14 out of 43 police forces.

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    5. Mr Russell said:

      “We recommend a senior national police and probation group is established to oversee the whole programme. The Ministry of Justice and Home Office should also refresh their joint national strategy and provide clear leadership and support for the delivery of IOM and sharing of best practice locally.”

      In lieu of national data, HM Inspectorate of Probation reviewed 268 cases involving individuals who had been managed through this multi-agency approach. Eight out of ten (81 per cent) said drug misuse contributed to their offending while four out of ten (40 per cent) cited the lack of accommodation as a key factor. Three-quarters (75 per cent) were being supervised by probation officers after leaving prison.

      Inspectors found the quality of supervision was better for these individuals. They were 10 percentage points more likely to be adequately supervised, compared to those not involved in the scheme.

      In 2014, the two inspectorates made a recommendation for a thorough evaluation of the IOM approach. This task is still outstanding nearly six years later.

      Mr Russell said:

      “Reoffending costs the economy more than £18bn every year and 42 per cent of serving prisoners are prolific offenders. The government needs a better understanding of this programme’s effectiveness and how it can help individuals to break the cycle of offending.

      “Our data shows that integrated management of offenders by police and probation can make a difference and the passion and commitment of managers and staff we talked to was evident. We saw good examples of police and probation officers going the extra mile to ensure that individuals received relevant support for complex problems.

      “This sort of commitment now needs to be replicated at national level. We think an independent evaluation is needed into the costs and benefits of IOM, and to determine which types of offenders benefit most from this approach.”

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  7. bbc world at one - most useful contribution was from an anonymised probation officer who's testimony was excellent (voiced by bbc staff):

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0032s9r

    The £170,000-a-year chief probation officer remains silent, presumably still trapped in a paper bag & unable to find her way out, so they brought out hmip JONES (again) who accumulated far fewer splinters in his arse as he seemed to be climbing off the fence, albeit with some trepidation.

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  8. You just pipped my raising this - listen from 12mins in - Ben Cockburn first then unamed officer voiced up - some belting lines:-

    "an arse-covering exercise"
    "you have to offer them something"
    "I recall someone every week"
    "am worried all the time"
    "I was working late - got to bed at midnight"
    "I woke up at four"
    "the pay is horrendous"
    "politically there is so much red tape"
    "you have to keep hold of nuggets to stay positive"

    HMI Martin Jones follows with a good interview. It's well worth listening to all this and we can see why PO's are forbidden from talking to the media. Well done that officer!

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    1. The biggest tingly spine moment for me was when the PO spoke about the impact of change... "for their children, and their children's children".

      THAT will have touched a universal nerve and maybe did more to bring into focus the work of frontline probation staff than anything cockburn or lawrence or the silent cpo could ever manage.

      CHAPEAU anon practitioner.

      Now the beeb needs to get its newsy arse oop north for the conference to meet even more anon practitioners & FEEL the pain, the despair & the anger.

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  9. Today's Guardian:-

    The early release of thousands of prisoners was bound to be awkward for a new prime minister. Politically speaking, Andy Burnham’s decision to exclude those convicted of manslaughter and some other offences made sense. But with about 2,000 offenders being freed this month, the risk is that by cutting the numbers, he has added to overcrowding problems inside. With the prison and probation services under huge pressure, and a ballot on industrial action expected, there is an urgent need for moves from the government to strengthen both.

    Shielded from view as prisons are, and despite the efforts of campaigners and writers such as Jimmy McGovern to draw attention to them, conditions have been allowed to deteriorate to a shocking extent. The latest annual report from the prisons watchdog drew a dismal picture of rampant drug use, organised crime and governors wasting time on form-filling. It warned that the Prison Service’s managers appear to favour crisis management over improvement.

    Criticisms of the probation service of England and Wales contained in the latest report by the Institute for Government’s (IfG) appear measured, by comparison. Probation’s problems are less attention-grabbing, and senior leaders are not singled out for blame. But analysis of the impact of sentencing reforms, combined with ongoing staff shortages and tagging failures, are cause for very serious concern all the same. This is a vital public service that was already facing serious difficulties before its caseload was massively enlarged.

    Problems date back to the failed part-privatisation of the service. The IfG highlights the toll of “near-constant organisational change”. One result has been de-skilling, with staff increasingly reliant on risk-management protocols rather than judgment. The number of recalls to prison due to breached conditions, rather than new offences, undermines rehabilitation and worsens overcrowding. But an overstretched workforce seems unable to break this cycle. There is simply not enough time to build relationships.

    The failure to fit 45% of tags on time is obviously unacceptable; ministers need to get a grip and explain what is happening. The IfG also recommends further sentencing reforms aimed at making the system clearer. Rightly, it points out that the growing gap between jail sentences imposed in court and time actually served risks undermining trust and angering victims. Similarly, licence periods should end at the point where supervision ceases. Currently, there is a pretence that more people are serving community sentences than is actually the case. This places the probation service in a false position.

    The pay dispute is the immediate challenge. As part of a settlement, ministers should pledge to rebuild capacity and fill vacancies. Looking further ahead, probation needs closer links to the local services that can help offenders to get back on their feet. The merger with the Prison Service has failed to deliver promised gains.

    Managing risks to the public must remain a priority. But Enver Solomon, who leads Nacro, the criminal justice charity, is right to argue for a more “person-centred” style of probation work. No one who knows anything about prisons thinks that they are fulfilling their rehabilitation remit. A renewed focus on purposeful activity inside jails is needed. But as increased numbers of prisoners are diverted towards probation, the service needs resources to deliver what is asked of it.

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  10. https://www.channel4.com/news/theres-been-an-exponential-rise-in-prison-recalls-probation-service-chair-says

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  11. ‘……Probation’s problems are less attention-grabbing, and senior leaders are not singled out for blame.’
    A piece of poor reporting. It makes no mention of who is/are singled out for blame, practitioners on the front line, even though it is usually due to circumstances beyond their control.

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