So, we get prisons being front and centre of this thirst for vengeance and no wonder Probation is starved of investment- it's not an appeasement to the baying mob. As far as recruitment goes: this is constantly in flux. It doesn't take into consideration those wanting to leave now or are thinking of leaving and the number of new recruits who may not stay the distance, which is between 24 and 32 months after PO status without NQO and completion of the PQIP has been achieved, because the culture at a given a PDU may not be conducive to a person's circumstances or working practice. Cliques, favouritism, factions, staff using leverage, side hustles that lead to exemptions, meaning more work for others; some factors that come into play in a PDU that are hidden until you get there. Probation often doesn't help itself with the culture it creates and normalises, because it is what it is becomes the status quo
*******
[above] has nailed it - report after report after report after report, but no-one gives a flying fuck what they say; they make no difference to the day-to-day reality... people get paid shitloads more to prepare & publish the reports than those trying to deliver what the reports blather on about. casey has made a fortune out of being a professional "cszar"; chairs of enquiries get paid £hundreds-of-thousands over the period of the hearings they preside over; judges get their salaries PLUS whatever the hearing daily rate is.
What's the fucking point? As someone else has already highlighted, the first NAO report on TR was predicated on govt lies & misinformation... just because a report matches your prejudice doesn't mean its accurate. The situation for probation staff is dire, whether you're new or existing or long-serving. Management is a non-sequitur, in the majority of cases its simply a label for collusive shitweasel (there are always exceptional exceptions).
[above] has nailed it - report after report after report after report, but no-one gives a flying fuck what they say; they make no difference to the day-to-day reality... people get paid shitloads more to prepare & publish the reports than those trying to deliver what the reports blather on about. casey has made a fortune out of being a professional "cszar"; chairs of enquiries get paid £hundreds-of-thousands over the period of the hearings they preside over; judges get their salaries PLUS whatever the hearing daily rate is.
What's the fucking point? As someone else has already highlighted, the first NAO report on TR was predicated on govt lies & misinformation... just because a report matches your prejudice doesn't mean its accurate. The situation for probation staff is dire, whether you're new or existing or long-serving. Management is a non-sequitur, in the majority of cases its simply a label for collusive shitweasel (there are always exceptional exceptions).
*******
HMPPS’s ‘Our Future Probation Programme’ is not bold and innovative approach, it’s nonsense and I cringe every time I hear it. If HMPPS acknowledges that the Probation Service is currently unsustainable then why isn’t it adequately paid and resourcing probation staff. The fix isn’t rocket science, but let’s see how quick they farm in Serco, Sodexo, G4S and others to do the “extra work” the prison crisis and so called reforms are generating. It’s been said time and again, even on this blog, until probation is separated from prisons, the civil service and political meddling, there will be no change.
If probation is unable to develop a clear and credible identity, distinct from narratives around punishment, public safety, use of technology, cost-effectiveness, or custody alternatives, and to resist the urge to overpromise on risk management, public protection, and crime control, then it will continue to face the challenge of misrepresentation. Without a clearly defined identity, probation remains vulnerable to external pressures, limiting its autonomy and effectiveness to dust.
HMPPS’s ‘Our Future Probation Programme’ is not bold and innovative approach, it’s nonsense and I cringe every time I hear it. If HMPPS acknowledges that the Probation Service is currently unsustainable then why isn’t it adequately paid and resourcing probation staff. The fix isn’t rocket science, but let’s see how quick they farm in Serco, Sodexo, G4S and others to do the “extra work” the prison crisis and so called reforms are generating. It’s been said time and again, even on this blog, until probation is separated from prisons, the civil service and political meddling, there will be no change.
If probation is unable to develop a clear and credible identity, distinct from narratives around punishment, public safety, use of technology, cost-effectiveness, or custody alternatives, and to resist the urge to overpromise on risk management, public protection, and crime control, then it will continue to face the challenge of misrepresentation. Without a clearly defined identity, probation remains vulnerable to external pressures, limiting its autonomy and effectiveness to dust.
Reports and enquiries are just another aspect of the tick box culture that dominates our society.
ReplyDeleteWhen something happens, the solution is an enquiry and a subsequent report.
Box ticked. Job done.
The outcome is always "lessons need to be learned".
It's a demonstration that our political structures themselves are just as broken and dysfunctional and damaged as the public services they are charged to oversee.
'Getafix
It's all nothing. The clever professor Brian Cox confirms to all just how irrelevant we are. The whole thing earth and our galaxy. 1 year from here travelling at the speed of light we couldn't get close to anything out there. Every star at night we see is in fact another sun and the light we see from it is travelling already a billion years old before we see it. Each star others suns have their own planets . For every star you see there are more of them than every grain of sand on the earth. Beyond our scope grasp imagination I don't know but what do know is everything pales to insignificance when we look beyond the daily crap we are dealing with.
ReplyDeleteWhat has this got to do with anything facing us. Your a bit out there you mean. Back on earth then. Lammy has presented an inquiry for the release of. Foreign national probation was mentioned but jenrick had the better half of it. Lammy is limited in his ability to mange pressure by an obvious country mile. How can he hold such office hardly robust. I doubt he could have been any use in legal matters. Heavy sighs and breathing out a few old legalese shows he has limited repertoire.
DeleteInstitute for government on BBC news Cassia Rowland senior research officer. Speaking up for the justice system she referenced probation very well. 30 under staffed in po grades strain on the system and vulnerability across the board on more going wrong. Not our union speaking up at this crisis point as usual but Cassia has just shown Napo how to manage pr on probations front.
ReplyDeleteWe have many in probation that speak up for probation, and many more that are willing to do so. Many have been featured here over the years too. The problem is we’re not listened to.
DeletePaying a union to protect us defend us represent us. Napo does not do any of these things.
DeleteA couple of interestingly responses on the POA homepage today. They are clearly digging their heels for a scrap with the MoJ.
Deletehttps://www.poauk.org.uk/news-events/news-room/posts/2025/october/circ-068-general-secretary-update-release-in-error/
https://www.poauk.org.uk/news-events/news-room/posts/2025/october/pr-291-poa-response-to-the-statement-from-the-secretary-of-state-for-justice/
'Getafix
On 24th October 2025 a prisoner was released in error from HMP Chelmsford. The NEC determined that we would not do any media interviews until such times as we understood what had happened. We were inundated with requests from countless outlets including SKY, BBC, Channel 4, Channel 5 and ITV along with newspapers and numerous radio stations over the weekend. The National Chair and I declined to do any as we wanted to speak to our member who we established was suspended on that day and to the local POA committee at Chelmsford so we could be better informed.
DeleteI am glad that we took that stance and did not dive in with misinformation and the fact that there is an investigation which commenced today. I personally spoke to our member involved on Saturday 25th October 2025 and he is being supported not just by the POA, but I also have to state the Governor and Deputy Governor of Chelmsford.
I am grateful to Senior members of HMPPS for keeping the POA up to date as best they could without encroaching on the investigation that has commenced. Our priority is and will be to safeguard our member and not allow a trial by media or social media develop into a political witch hunt by any political party.
I visited our suspended member today 27th October 2025 and accompanied him to Chelmsford prison for his interview. He has been treated until now extremely fairly and what we discussed will remain private so as not to compromise any investigation.
Irrespective of pressure being applied by the media or indeed social media platforms the POA will always dictate when we will do our media not react just to be in the media spotlight. We are now in a better position of knowledge and will commence this afternoon some media duties not impacting on the investigation.
Our thoughts will always be to have our members interests at heart and showing compassion and professionalism to the victims of crime. We will address the issues in the coming days and weeks in relation to the prison crisis, but we will not accept the media, politicians, or social media platforms scapegoating and making false and malicious allegations. Further it is totally unacceptable on some social media platforms to blame inexperienced staff, or our foreign national staff being badly trained for issues that are systemic and outside their control. It is a disgrace that some individuals choose to attack our members who are foreign nationals and new members of staff and the POA who are the only recognised trade union in the public sector Prison Service will stand shoulder to shoulder with them to defend their interests.
I will give further updates once the investigation is complete where I will be able to speak more freely. I hope the membership understand why the POA waited until an appropriate time to do media work on this issue. We will also fully participate in the Inquiry the Deputy Prime Minister is due to announce and give clear evidence on behalf of POA members.
Commenting on the statement made by David Lammy MP, Secretary of State for Justice, Steve Gillan General Secretary of the Prison Officers' Association said:
Delete"The POA acknowledge the admission by the Secretary of State that the prison system has been 'brought to its knees' following a decade and a half of swingeing cuts to the prisons budget.
We have a criminal justice system in crisis with our prisons overcrowded and understaffed with a staff cohort under pressure like never before.
Unless these issues are dealt with urgently then mistakes like this are likely to happen.
The POA will cooperate with the independent inquiry into the release of Hadush Kebatu"
Mark Fairhurst National Chair of the POA stated:
“The POA will fully support our members who are involved in this incident. We will not accept any scapegoating of staff to satisfy political narratives. There is a severe lack of training for staff at all grades, an issue we have highlighted to HMPPS for at least a decade, the pressure on staff is intolerable, and this will inevitably lead to mistakes. These issues should have been addressed a long time ago, but as usual, our employer waits for a headline and then acts.
Our main concern now is to support our members and co-operate with any investigation to ensure this is never repeated and staff are competent and confident in their roles.”
"The process starts at the offender management unit".
DeleteIs it possible that probation could be blamed for the erroneous release of a deportee?
https://www.channel4.com/news/prison-union-chair-says-officer-unjustly-singled-out-over-prisoner-release
'Getafix
The Chair of the Prison Officers’ Association, Mark Fairhurst told Channel 4 News that officers were “devastated” over the error that led to asylum seeker and convicted sex offender Hadush Kebatu being released from prison when he should’ve been sent to an immigration centre, and then deported.
DeleteHe told Jackie Long that although his union has effectively apologised for what happened, “we don’t actually know who’s at fault, but somewhere along the way, something has been missed. We accept that.”
The union chair felt the member who has been suspended from duty has been “unjustly singled out” and they will need to wait until an inquiry into the incident to find out if any officer was at fault or not.
The Justice Secretary David Lammy told MPs on Monday it was probably “human error” that led to the release. When pressed by Jackie Long that prison officers have to take responsibility for this, Mr Fairhurst responded that it may be human error, but “not necessarily prison officer error.”
He said that there was a lengthy process involved in prisoner transfers and releases.
“This whole process starts in the offender management unit, where there are admin grades processed in the paperwork. There are two separate management checks along the way, one at 14 days prior to release, and then the duty governor signs it off two days prior release.” he told Channel 4 News.
“So if that paperwork says that prisoners should be released instead of held there, awaiting immigration removal, then that’s what we do.”
Between April 2024 and March 2025, 262 prisoners were released in error, according to government statistics, a 128% increase from the previous year.
Mr Fairhurst said there were systemic issues – though when Jackie Long put it to him that the officers were part of that system, he said although they “do do the checks when we discharge people” that is “down to the process and the paperwork.”
He queried whether on this occasion, the immigration services and Border Force hadn’t “sent the correct paperwork that gives us the authority to hold that prisoner, pending a transfer.”
As a probation officer I have had 3 people unlawfully released once the prison rang me and asked me to do a home visit and tell the person on to hand himself in
ReplyDeleteGuess what he said
ReplyDeleteNapo’s GS, Ian Lawrence, shares his thoughts on the National Audit Office report into probation.
ReplyDeleteThe National Audit Office report that has been issued today, represents one of the most damning that I have seen in my long career.
It totally vindicates everything that Napo has been saying about the current state of the Probation Service and the systemic failings by HMPPS leadership over a number of years, and the dereliction of duty shown by the previous government and, to some extent, the current administration in failing to get to grips with the myriad issues that are highlighted in the report.
To use a recent quote by the Prisons and Probation Minister Lord Timpson: “Probation does the heavy lifting in the Justice system,” and staff have worked heroically to try and deliver one initiative after another to try and keep the public safe, and help to turn lives around while facing the huge challenges that follow the unprecedented number of Prisoners coming back into our communities on early release schemes.
To do that work effectively, it’s obvious that the service requires more staff and vastly improved political support. It’s also clear that the senior management regime within HMPPS has been an abject failure, and hopefully the Public Accounts Committee will be asking serious questions about how a shortfall of several thousand staff in Sentence Management could go under the Radar as well as the unmanageable workloads that have been allowed to build up. We also expect to see this government deliver on its Manifesto commitment to review the future governance structure of the service with a view to retuning Probation back to the communities it serves and out of the Prison-Centric HMPPS.
More immediately, staff need to see a pay offer (some 10 months after the trade unions submitted a pay claim for 2025). The unacceptable delay after several weeks of negotiations last summer, smacks of disrespect and a continual assumption that the goodwill of staff can be relied upon yet again. Small wonder that Napo are making plans to again ballot our members for industrial action.
Napo demands a fair share of the allocated £700 million per year for the next 3 years from the Spending Review and that this must go directly into supporting front face practitioners and improved public safety, rather than being frittered away on grandiose AI projects. We also want to see an enquiry into the perennial failures of SERCO to deliver value to the taxpayer through its flawed electronic monitoring regime which as produced one failure after another.
Finally, Napo is grateful to the work undertaken by the NAO in terms of the need for transparency and public accountability.
Lawrence tosh . Look here mate all you complain of never once have you taken proper action or any account of what your members suffer. Long career perhaps you should go now it's time and there won't be any improvement of your game. Useless is always useless.
DeleteFair comment from Ian. We cannot do anything about yesterday. We must deal with the present with a watchful eye to the future otherwise we risk getting caught in a downward spiral of self negation/poo pooing and roll on your back acceptance that nothing works. Some things have worked and are working and some new things like the careful and responsible use of AI and other emerging technologies might make a positive contribution. So let’s get out of this negative mindset that says everything that happened after 1984 is crap and keep repeating the mantra that Napo, PI etc are useless and ineffective and POs are too young etc. When did a campaign based on negativity and attacking others ever bring about positive change ? Has Trump made the US great again? If you pedal negativity you are in the Trump camp. How is that working out for you?
Delete"To use a recent quote by the Prisons and Probation Minister Lord Timpson: “Probation does the heavy lifting in the Justice system,” and staff have worked heroically to try and deliver one initiative after another to try and keep the public safe, and help to turn lives around while facing the huge challenges that follow the unprecedented number of Prisoners coming back into our communities on early release schemes."
ReplyDeleteAnd yet there is no money for a decent and well deserved payrise.
Should be paid on breach and recalls you’d all be millionaire
ReplyDeleteAs long as we didn't have to pay every time we went out of our way to avoid a breach or recall.....most of us would be skint!
DeletePeople shouldn't breach their licence then. It's not difficult.
DeletePeople with no home , no job mental health, addictions, trauma ? I imagine the last posters Mickey Mouse training didnt cover barriers to signing on for five.minutes by a z different officer each time
DeleteNature of the people recruited to the sort of training on offer these days. Where I am struggling is to square billions to hoteliers too to police for managing fault civil unrest and the continued slaughter of innocent people by those who are not socialised here and hold extreme values.
DeleteYou people (1727, 2135) are obviously the type who would fail to recall a domestic abuser if he rocked up at his victim's address.
DeleteTraining today is for frustrated traffic wardens who dream of being a public protector and that’s why it is no longer a profession and lacks the owt of say teachers and social workers.
ReplyDeleteTraffic wardens are paid more.
DeleteAnd less hated.
DeleteAll part of destroying a profession. All going according to plan.
ReplyDeleteNot sure you could ever call probation a profession. When examined no one could state what the professional aspects were during TR.
Deletehttps://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/oct/28/five-more-prisoners-freed-in-error-after-sex-offenders-release-from-essex-jail
ReplyDeleteFive other prisoners have also been released by mistake in the same week a convicted Ethiopian sex offender was allowed to walk free from an Essex jail, says the prison officers’ union.
DeleteThe disclosure of further mistakes highlights the intense pressure on prison staff, according to the Prison Officers’ Association (POA).
Last Friday, Hadush Kebatu was mistakenly released from HMP Chelmsford after being sentenced to 12 months in jail in September for sexually assaulting a woman and a 14-year-old girl while living in an asylum hotel in Epping.
After a two-day manhunt he was tracked down in north London and returned to detention.
His mistaken release inflamed public anger, given his case had already caused unrest across England and Wales over the summer, with many demonstrators rallying against asylum accommodation and voicing anti-immigration sentiments.
On Tuesday, the POA chair, Mark Fairhurst, told the BBC there had been five other mistaken releases in the past seven days “from five separate prisons”. One of the prisoners is still at large, PA reported.
The mistaken releases took place at HMP Pentonville, HMP Durham, HMP the Mount in Hertfordshire and from Reading crown court, according to PA.
The Ministry of Justice has acknowledged that more prisoners were mistakenly released this week, but disputed the number.
Fairhurst said prison authorities knew the erroneous releases had been a “regular occurrence” for the past year.
He blamed inadequate staff training and said the early release schemes, brought in by the government to tackle jail overcrowding last year, had created “a confusing time for everyone”.
He defended prison staff and said the union was supporting the officer involved in Kebatu’s case, who he said had been “unfairly” suspended.
Fairhurst said an error in the paperwork had led to Kebatu’s release: “Somewhere on that paperwork, it’s been missed that we should have held this person in reception until the immigration service picked him up for deportation.”
David Lammy, the justice secretary, told MPs on Monday that he had been freed in “what appears to have been a human error”.
Lammy said the government was immediately putting stronger checks in place at prisons across the country.
A spokesperson for the Ministry of Justice said: “Releases in error have been increasing for several years and are another symptom of the prison system crisis inherited by this government.”
According to government figures published in July, 262 prisoners were released in error in the year to March 2025 – a 128% increase on 115 in the previous 12 months.
The identity, nationality & convictions of Mr Kebatu have been on every media channel every day since the error facilitating his release last Friday 24 October. Not a single detail of any of the other prisoners released in error have been disclosed beyond "five other mistaken releases in the past seven days from five separate prisons. One of the prisoners is still at large."
DeleteWill Reform make a fuss that there aren't enough white British prisoners being wrongly released?
The dim moj damn themselves with faint praise:
“Releases in error have been increasing for several years and are another symptom of the prison system crisis inherited by this government.”
MoJ has been in place since 2007 & the current govt has been in place for over a year.
(from our friends at wiki)
"The British penal system underwent a transition from harsh punishment to reform, education, and training for post-prison livelihoods. The reforms were controversial and contested. From 1877, a series of major legislative reforms enabled significant improvement in the penal system. In 1877, the previously localised prisons were nationalised in the Home Office under a Prison Commission. The Prison Act 1898 enabled the Home Secretary to enact multiple reforms on his own initiative, without going through the politicised process of Parliament... The Probation of Offenders Act 1907 introduced a new probation system that drastically cut down the prison population, while providing a mechanism for the transition back to normal life."
The prison pop is currently ~87,413, +/- a handful.
Yea right things have changed a little since then. Most of the population is unsocialised as recognised English. Half of London supports terrorists or some other religious belief and reformation is not on their top priority list. Taxation is the highest in Europe benefits through the roof and an addicted culture to drugs alcohol and fantasy. I think your references are foolish and naive.
Delete"Most of the population is unsocialised as recognised English. Half of London supports terrorists or some other religious belief"
DeleteThey're here! They walk (& work) among us.
As for the current political class...
https://www.aol.co.uk/news/reform-mp-admits-gaming-benefit-111849860.html
Lee Anderson admits 'gaming' the benefits system
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd04d0yxnrvo
Chancellor admits breaking housing rules by renting out home
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68801671
Angela Rayner: I'll stand down if I've broken the law
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/04/rachel-reeves-angela-rayner-tax-rules-investigation-labour/
Reeves tells Rayner: We should all understand tax rules
"I think your references are foolish and naive."
Like I said the world has moved on stabbing to death common place I'm guessing you want to talk it through and reform those attitudes . Probation as a concept now outdated out of its depth.
Delete"Like I said the world has moved on... I'm guessing you want to talk it through and reform those attitudes"
DeleteTom & Lauren Are Going OOT BBCR4
Neil (Julian Clarey): I think I've discovered who's been shitting in the basement corridor. Its that posh woman from number 3b. She's a probation officer.
(at least it wasn't Eammon Andrews!)
Long gone is any sense of respect for the (now dead & buried) probation profession... we've now 'moved on' to the 21st century reincarnation of the 'new punishment era' as delivered by the New Punishment Service, an AI partnership agency brought to you by The Cobbler & Reform.
"The term 'new punishment era' refers to the shift in England from the 16th to the 19th centuries, when punishments moved toward public humiliation, hard labor, and transportation"
https://www.russell-cooke.co.uk/news-and-insights/news/sentencing-bill-clause-35-why-publicly-naming-offenders-undermines-rehabilitation
I'm not so interested in the vulgarity of who's done what. In the 90s the rise of nellis and the notion of educating new po structure in a claimed social value termed" just deserts" gave a polite signalling to educates that revenge policy is ok . Po training became more about distributing a justified negative than promotion of the learned positive. It was a quick slide down hill from this concept to dish out as much self indulged bully can shift onto hapless offenders. Just the term offender labels and yet it has become common language. The office attitudes that exist around these terms set us on a course a million miles from where we started. There is no point harking back to grand old values the world really has moved on. For the worst sure for our clientele obviously. For me and you better form strategy that brings the current ocean going vessel to a slow down then stop with hope of a shifted direction. One thing is for certain we won't achieve anything unless we agree some initial perspective on where we are now not how did we get here.
DeleteLock em up
ReplyDeletepqip robot
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/59-01/0313/amend/sentencing_day_rep_1029.pdf
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002m6d3
schedule of proposed amendments here:
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/4012/stages/20246/amendments
the bill passed through the commons yesterday
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/4012/stages
examples of amendments proposed:
DeleteThe House has not considered this amendment.
To move the following Clause—
“Probation caseloads
(1) The Secretary of State must, before laying regulations to commence the provisions in this Act, establish maximum caseload limits for probation officers supervising individuals subject to—
(a) licence conditions;
(b) community orders; or
(c) any other form of court-imposed supervision by the probation service.
(2) The Secretary of State must, each year, lay before Parliament a report on compliance with the caseload limits set under this section.”
Member's explanatory statement
This new clause would require the Secretary of State to set maximum caseloads for probation before implementation of the Act, and to report annually on compliance.
_________________________________________________
The House has not considered this amendment.
To move the following Clause—
“Access to rehabilitation and support services
(1) The probation service must ensure all individuals subject to licence conditions, community orders, or other court-imposed supervision have access to—
(a) NHS mental health and substance misuse services,
(b) education, training and employment support, and
(c) approved behaviour change or offender behaviour programmes.
(2) The Secretary of State must lay before Parliament, each year, a report on the availability and use of the services provided under subsection (1).”
Member's explanatory statement
This new clause would require the probation service to ensure people under its supervision can access mental health and substance misuse services; education, training and support; and approved behaviour change or offender management programmes, and to report annually on the availability and uptake of those services.
_______________________________________________
hansard record of the 3rd reading
Deletehttps://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2025-10-29/debates/38B50B65-D95F-4021-A354-699D651378BF/SentencingBill
New clause 32—Powers of the probation service to impose and vary conditions of supervision—
“(1) Where an offender is—
(a) subject to a community order, a suspended sentence order, or a period of probation supervision; and
(b) required to reside at a specified address as a condition of that order or supervision,
the Probation Service may, in accordance with this section, direct that the offender reside at an alternative address.
(2) A direction under subsection (1) may be given where—
(a) it is necessary to protect another person (including a partner, former partner, or family member) from risk of harm;
(b) it is necessary for the effective management or rehabilitation of the offender; or
(c) it is otherwise in the interests of justice.
(3) Where the probation service has made a direction under subsection (1), it may recommend or determine other terms of supervision, including—
(a) restrictions on contact or association with specified individuals;
(b) requirements relating to participation in programmes addressing offending behaviour; or
(c) curfew or exclusion requirements, subject to approval by the sentencing court.
(4) Where a direction or variation made under this section materially alters the conditions imposed by the sentencing court, the probation service must—
(a) notify the court and the offender as soon as possible; and
(b) seek confirmation by the sentencing court of the varied terms within 14 days.
(5) Any direction or variation made under this section shall have effect as if imposed by the sentencing court, until it has been confirmed, revoked, or amended by the court.
(6) In this section, “the probation service” includes any person or body authorised to supervise offenders under the Offender Management Act 2007.”
Toggle showing location of Column 369
This new clause would give the probation service the power to change the residence requirement of an individual subject to supervision in certain circumstances, and to make other changes to the terms of supervision, subject to confirmation by the sentencing court.
Jake Richards, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State in the Ministry of Justice:
I will briefly touch on the issue of probation. A number of amendments have been tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) and spoken to by other hon. Members. The Government accept that the Bill places an extra responsibility on the Probation Service. That is why we are investing £750 million in probation—a 45% increase, and the biggest upgrade to investment in probation for a generation. We are investing £8 million to improve technology, so that probation officers can undertake probation work rather than be stifled by the burden of paperwork. We recruited 1,000 probation officers in our first year and 1,300 this year. However, there is undoubtedly more work to be done, and we will undertake that work in the coming weeks and months.
This Government have been very clear that work must be at the heart of our prisons. Ensuring that offenders work will mean that they can be rehabilitated
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/deaths-of-offenders-in-the-community-annual-update-to-march-2025/deaths-of-offenders-in-the-community-annual-update-to-march-2025
Delete"This new clause would give the probation service the power to change the residence requirement of an individual subject to supervision in certain circumstances, and to make other changes to the terms of supervision, ***** subject to confirmation by the sentencing court *****."
DeleteA pointless clause that has exercised the closed minds of many anti-probation MPS because, as we should know, we already have the authority to take an order back to court to vary it if there's a 'good enough' reason. For example, the person subject to the order has found employment, has suffered an injury, has relocated, is detained in hospital, etc.
It also allows them to restate the following:
(6) In this section, “the probation service” includes any person or body authorised to supervise offenders under the Offender Management Act 2007.”
Expensive nonsense.
Off topic apologies after Harris Epstein max Clifford the late Mr hall glitter savile we now have a Windsor finally being dealt with. Only mandelson to go from the lords with the thief ms mony and we are getting the swamp cleaner. As for Mr Windsor I bet he won't be homeless or need housing and benefits so what's he lost a title and reputation. What has yet to be released on him. The sadistic evil of his entitlement to try and destroy guifree reputation while in public office using the police. He needs some jail time he needs to come clean as long as he denies culpable knowledge he finishes any chance of understanding . What an entitled moron the aristocracy seems to produce.
ReplyDeleteEarly start but interesting all the privilege in the world and he's likely offending is some torrid sex string of abused young women . A father privileged care free of money wealth and celebrity status and he behaves like a depravity driven cave man. What numskulls around don't dare say your highness you cannot do this stuff. Oh yes the very police officers there to protect blind eye his carrying on and are seen as so close they can asked to find information on a victim. It is scandalous and the palace must know what is yet to come as this guy has to face criminal charges from actions within public and private office. A monster no doubt the only medal he can have is his Jim fixed it for him what a shameless reckless bastard.
DeleteAnother one out, one in government scheme? Or just a game of penal ping-pong?
ReplyDeletehttps://www-bbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.com/news/articles/c93x001ve9ko.amp?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17618617454028&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Farticles%2Fc93x001ve9ko
'Getafix
Almost 40,000 prisoners in England and Wales have been released early since September 2024, official figures show.
DeleteTheir release was part of an emergency government scheme to help ease overcrowding in prisons.
The Ministry of Justice figures show 38,042 were freed under the scheme between September 2024 and June 2025.
Last year, the Labour government introduced the measure after prisons almost reached full capacity. At one point, there were about a hundred spaces remaining across the male prison estate.
The then Justice Secretary, Shabana Mahmood, said at the time: "In short if we fail to act now, we face the collapse of the criminal justice system. And a total breakdown of law and order".
The emergency scheme allows some inmates to be released after serving 40% of their fixed term sentence, rather than the usual 50%.
It replaced a separate scheme introduced by the previous Conservative government. Under that process, 13,325 inmates were released early between October 2023 and September 2024.
Prison sources have told the BBC early releases have meant "more comings and goings" across the penal estate.
The number of recalls - when offenders are released on license but are imprisoned again for breaching their conditions - has risen significantly over the last two years.
There were 11,041 recalls to prison between April to June 2025 of offenders who had breached the conditions of their release, up from 9,782 over the same period last year. The number has almost doubled from what it was during the same period in 2023 (6,814).
Prison sources say the rise is likely to be down to the early release scheme which has seen more people being let out in a given time to create more space.
An independent investigation was launched earlier this week after migrant sex offender Hadush Kebatu was mistakenly released from prison.
Kebatu, who was set to be deported, was freed in error from HMP Chelmsford, prompting a 48-hour manhunt that ended with him being re-arrested in north London.
Responding to his mistaken release, chief inspector of prisons Charlie Taylor said inexperienced staff were being left with large caseloads of work due to a high churn of people coming through the prison system.
He said the situation had been made more difficult by the implementation of various early release schemes rolled out in recent years.
Of the 38,042 released early, 34,322 were British nationals, 3,644 were foreign nationals and 66 had no nationality recorded.
Some 10,879 were serving sentences of six months or less, with a further 5,241 serving sentences of between six and 12 months.
The age group that made up the greatest proportion of early releases was 30 to 39-year-olds, followed by 40 to 49-year-olds and 25 to 29-year-olds.
A Ministry of Justice spokesperson said: "This government inherited a prison system in crisis and took decisive action to stop our prisons from collapsing.
"Public protection is our number one priority. That is why offenders out on licence face strict conditions such as exclusion zones and being tagged, and they can be brought back to prison if they break these rules.
"We are building 14,000 prison places - with 2,500 opened since last July - and reforming sentencing so our jails are never left to run out of space again."
On Thursday, figures revealed that the number of people dying in prisons in England and Wales has reached its highest level over a 12-month period in a century.
There were 411 deaths recorded in the year to September, up 30% from the 317 deaths in 2024, and the highest number since current data began in 2020, according to the MoJ.
Assaults on staff have also reached a new peak, with 121 assaults per 1,000 prisoners in the year to June compared to 118 in the same period last year.
"Of the 38,042 released early, 34,322 were British nationals, 3,644 were foreign nationals and 66 had no nationality recorded.
DeleteSome 10,879 were serving sentences of six months or less, with a further 5,241 serving sentences of between six and 12 months."
What squealer leaves unsaid is that 22,012 early releases were for those serving sentences of 12 months & over.
That's 58% of early those releases that weren't short sentence prisoners.
Strange how it almost exactly mirrors the relentless right wing rhetoric of the last 2 years:
Oct 2025: "Almost 40,000 prisoners in England and Wales have been released early since September 2024, official figures show."
May 2025: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/23/labour-plans-40000-criminals-get-out-of-jail-free-card/
July 2024: https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-could-let-out-40000-inmates-early-to-ease-prisons-crisis-r68zq2vfq
Prison Officers submit 26/27 payclaim.......One HMPPS ha, ha !?
ReplyDeleteEarn more now
ReplyDeleteYep. They're already negotiating their next 4%+ pay rise, whilst our unions are still deciding how to sell a risibly late real-terms pay cut to their members.
ReplyDeleteThe last comment on pay on the NAPO a website was on 23rd May 2025.
ReplyDeleteThere does not appear to be anything to report since that date.
Does anybody know when the General Secretary has his salary reviewed/revised?
Don't worry the Napo general secretary is always on time when asking for a personal payment above inflation. Pay awards for members what's that then.
DeleteApologies to all. I missed the comment on 26.09.25 which basically says, ‘ nothing to report.’
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteThis may need to be added over a few comments. I came across an interesting discussion on LinkedIn today about the widening divide between custody and community perspectives on probation training, recruitment, and retention.
On one side, a custody SPO (and others) argue that prison staff should not only be paid more than community staff to train as probation officers, but also recognised as stronger rehabilitation professionals, even suggesting that Napo should be absorbed into the POA. On the other, a community SPO (and others) respond highlighting the distinct skills, ethos, and culture of probation practice, stressing that the real focus should be on fair pay, retention, and valuing the unique role of probation staff. Then there are those who sit somewhere in between.
My own view? Frankly, I’m not surprised by the custody SPO’s position, it reflects the wider tone of HMPPS towards probation. You can’t justify paying one group more to complete the same training others are paid less for. And the worst thing probation could do right now is move closer to the prison model, when in truth, it should be finding its way back to independence from it, and back towards social work values. I agree that Napo, in its current form, holds little weight to support probation staff, but that says more about its poor leadership and lack of clear identity and silly name, than about the need for a strong, dedicated union.
There’s a reason why probation models and youth justice services that use social workers are thriving. How difficult would it really be to take the £700 million set aside for tagging and AI, and instead invest it into a 20% pay rise across all probation bands, while giving all qualified probation officers and senior probation officers the all expenses paid fast track option to top up their qualifications to align with a Diploma in Social Work? That’s not radical, it’s just common sense. Probation recruitment and retention would go through the roof.
Either way, it’s an important debate, and if you’re on LinkedIn (for what it’s worth), you might want to join in too.
The discussion:
DeleteSenior Probation Officer - OMiC (Edd Flynn, Criminal Justice Speaker) writes:
From Custody to Community: How Joined-Up Thinking Could Solve the Retention Crisis:
HM Prison and Probation Service (HMPPS) is facing a serious staffing challenge.
Recent data shows that around 12% of prison officers left the service in the past year, while around 7% of probation officers also moved on.
The qualification issue: Within HMPPS, the early-career routes couldn’t look more different. On the custody side, you’ve got the Unlocked Graduates scheme — a two-year leadership programme aimed at high-calibre graduates, often including a master’s in Applied Custodial Leadership. These officers work directly on the landings, managing behaviour, leading culture change and helping people in custody turn a corner.
Then there’s the Professional Qualification in Probation (PQiP) — the pathway to becoming a fully qualified Probation Officer. It blends academic study with hands-on training in the community, supporting people on licence, managing risk and guiding rehabilitation beyond the prison walls.
What I see: As a Senior Probation Officer working in OMiC, I get a rare view into both worlds.
And honestly? Every week, hundreds of officers on the landings are already doing informal probation work — supporting resettlement plans, calming parole anxieties, talking about change and future risks.
So why don’t more Prison Officers take the step into probation? I manage 7 incredible Prison Offender Managers. If one wanted to retrain as a Probation Officer, they’d have to take roughly a £12,000 pay cut for two years, and then spend another four slowly climbing back to their current wage.
That’s not a transition, that’s a punishment for ambition.
The union tug-of-war: Since the unification of the Prison and Probation services, HMPPS has struggled to truly align its policies, recruitment or culture.
Part of that comes from the POA and NAPO pulling in different directions — both doing their jobs protecting members’ interests, but often reinforcing the divide instead of bridging it.
Rehabilitation needs to be prioritised over politics.
My proposal: unify and empower: Here’s what I believe HMPPS could do:
1. Unify the graduate pathways – merge Unlocked and PQiP into a shared entry route, offering placements across custody and community, without one being seen as “the better” option.
2. Align pay and progression – no more financial penalties for moving between the two arms of the service.
3. Recognise experience – if a Prison Offender Manager has proven themselves over several years, with strong management feedback, let them complete PQiP on their current salary.
Imagine the possibilities: Unified training. Shared pay structure.
It’s not radical, it’s logical. The people, the skills and the passion already exist inside HMPPS. We just need to make it easier for them to move, grow and stay.
Let’s make “crossing the line” between prison and probation an opportunity, not a career setback.
End.
Senior Probation Officer - Community responds:
DeleteReally thoughtful post. It’s pragmatic to look at options, but also to remember that while there are crossovers these can be very different jobs, reflecting the distinct cultures of custody and community even within HMPPS.
Probation has always had a rehabilitation and social work ethos, attracting to the training both graduates and those with valuable life or second-career experience, including many from prisons, the military, police, youth justice and the third sector.
If unions secure better pay, that will help attract and retain great staff. But I’d doubt they’d be any merging professional identities, many still see Napo as the distinct professional voice for probation, perhaps increasingly the Probation Institute is too.
I’d also like to see more inclusion of those with #LivedExperience in accessing probation training which has long been acknowledged as a thing https://insidetime.org/comment/prisoners-today-professionals-tomorrow/
And maybe, call me old school, a return to “advise, assist and befriend,” as I wrote here. In concluding I consider what the future could look like too https://napomagazine.org.uk/the-concept-of-professionalism-in-probation-a-view-from-the-frontline/
End.
Senior Probation Officer - OMiC responds to Senior Probation Officer - Community:
Completely with you — although I’d also say that, informally, “advise, assist and befriend” has almost become the quiet mantra for many prison officers these days, while the Probation Service has, somewhat ironically, drifted into being seen as the more punitive arm of HMPPS (just think of recall).
I’ll always be a champion for unions (spot the Labour voter). But controversially, I do think NAPO’s influence outweighs its actual size. It feels like a small union that punches well above its weight in terms of narrative and policy sway. I’d be curious to see the numbers, what percentage of the Probation Service are actually NAPO members?
I also don’t agree with NAPO’s stance on dissolving HMPPS. In my view, the Probation Service would be significantly weaker without that structural alignment. The truth is that the average Joe Bloggs doesn’t fully understand what probation does, nor its value to public protection. Without that connection to the prison service, the incentive to prioritise funding, wage increases, or recruitment would likely shrink even further. Dissolving HMPPS might sound empowering in theory, but in practice it risks leaving probation more isolated and under-resourced than ever.
End.
Senior Probation Officer - Community further responds to Senior Probation Officer- OMiC:
I see a lot of good rehabilitation and reintegration work happening in probation offices.
It’s fair to say that identity has become a key challenge, not just in England and Wales, but across Europe. It’s also something I wrote about recently, exploring how probation can reclaim and shape its identity.
Perhaps Napo shares a similar concern, without a clear and credible identity, distinct from punishment or risk-led narratives, probation risks being misunderstood and constrained by external pressures.
I concluded, and I think this is where we probably agree, that “the future of probation lies in evidence-based reform, practitioner development, and adequate resourcing.”
It’s a conversation we should all be part of, and well done for putting your ideas out there.
https://www.probation-institute.org/news/shaping-probations-identity
End.
Senior Lecturer in Criminal Justice responds to Senior Probation Officer- OMiC:
DeleteManaging high risk and very high ROSH in the community takes skill and experience.... balancing risk, criminogenic needs and building a meaningful rapport take time to learn and implement. There are key skills within this mix that just aren't being taught early enough through traditional qualifications. Qualifications should align to the job role. A very real problem we have is offering criminology qualifications that offer no opportunity to access criminal justice agencies or provide students with a skill set required to make it in criminal justice. There isn't enough happening in our schools to show prison or probabtion jobs as attractive
End.
Well-being Consultant responds to Senior Probation Officer- OMiC:
This is really interesting to read , there's also conversations to be had about why staff are leaving. As an ex senior probation officer myself I've heard of so many staff leaving owing to poor mental health and management.
Staffing includes retention.
End.
Financial Investigator responds to Senior Probation Officer- OMiC: Why “From Custody to Community” Sounds Great — But Wouldn’t Work (Yet)
The idea of merging prison and probation pathways under one unified entry route sounds smart: shared training, smoother transitions, and stronger collaboration. But in practice, it’s not that simple.
Different roles, different skills
Custody work focuses on safety, order, and behaviour management. Probation is about risk assessment, rehabilitation, and community reintegration. Blending them risks diluting both professions.
Training and accreditation gaps
Unlocked and PQiP have distinct standards and academic structures. Unifying them would require rewriting qualification frameworks and rebuilding university partnerships — a huge reform effort.
Culture and identity
Prison and probation services have very different working cultures and priorities. Without deeper organisational alignment, a joint route could cause confusion rather than cohesion.
Pay parity won’t solve retention
Matching salaries helps, but it doesn’t fix core issues like workload, burnout, or lack of support.
Union and structural barriers
POA and NAPO protect different workforces. Blurring boundaries would trigger long negotiations over representation and progression.
Food for thought
End.
Unlocked Graduates Ambassador responds to Senior Probation Officer- OMiC:
This is an interesting take. Sadly the unlocked programme is not likely to be recruiting a cohort for a while because they haven’t come to a procurement agreement with the government. As someone who’s just left the prison service (and an unlocked ambassador), I can say that the opportunity for prison officers to do real rehabilitative work is currently in direct conflict with how prisons are run (think regime, regime, regime) and the prioritization of security. I personally really had to carve out opportunities on my own - which often meant putting in many more hours than the core working day. I’m now looking at joining the probation service myself, so would definitely welcome an approach like the one you suggest - I wonder if it is something that has ever been considered in policy.
End.
Andrew Bridges responds to Senior Probation Officer- OMiC: It’s not just the unions who won’t like your idea, Ed. Your point about the disincentives to ‘career progression’ within Probation is not new, but very well made here, and in broad terms I’d support it, based on my views about many PSOs over the years, as well as Prison Officers. There are many interests that would resist such a radical rethink.
End.
Thats it - That’s not radical. It’s just common sense.
DeleteAgree or disagree, these are the conversations probation needs — not led by academics or think tanks, but by the people doing the work every day, willing to stand up, speak out, and be heard.
1. Unify the graduate pathways – merge Unlocked and PQiP into a shared entry route, offering placements across custody and community, without one being seen as “the better” option.
ReplyDelete- No. They’re two different courses for two fundamentally different roles.
2. Align pay and progression – no more financial penalties for moving between the two arms of the service.
- Yes. Probation staff should receive the same pay rises and bonuses already given to those in prisons. Equality works both ways.
3. Recognise experience – if a Prison Offender Manager has proven themselves over several years, with strong management feedback, let them complete PQiP on their current salary.
- No. That would mean prison staff being paid more than probation trainees for the same qualification and role, or even matching the pay of internal probation PSOs on the progression pathway. In fact, with prison pay rises and bonuses, they’d end up earning more. That’s unequal pay, plain and simple.
Imagine the possibilities: Unified training. Shared pay structure.
- Not if it erases the identity and value of the probation service. This is what happens when prison-led management drives the agenda. Next you’ll be arguing locking cell doors compares to probation work!
Final thought:
It’s not radical, it’s ridiculous. And that’s what happens when you use AI to draft a proposal to “unify and empower” a broken service like HMPPS.
Fully agree with you 17:41, I think most of our problems have stemmed from being so intertwined with the Prisons (as do most commentators on here I believe) Probation should go back to being seen as an Alternative to custody not an extension of custody as we in all sense are today. Prisons have it relatively easy in the sense they can lock them away, seg them, and chuck them out even if they have no address or referrals to support services. They don't have to worry about SFO's unless they stupidly wrongly release them which with today's technology beggers belief. It's not a comparable job apart from we deal with the same people, but that's like saying a brain surgeon and a chiropodist have a similar role...
DeleteI recall answering the question of why Prison and Probation staff are paid different by highlighting that you wouldn't pay a zookeeper more than a vet....
DeleteFair to say it
Shows how disconnected from reality probation managers are once they step through the prisons gate. They have to say all that as they’re line managed by prison governors which makes no sense at all. How Prison Officers are submitting a 26/27 payclaim when probation staff get nothing is beyond me.
Delete*they* are just using jim's blog to do what govt wonks do best, i.e. bully, cajole, lie & expedite. They use any & all available media to fly ridiculous kites such that one day (sooner than you could imagine) a policy will emerge.
ReplyDeleteI'd urge readers to take a stroll over to bbc sounds & explore the world of fabulospeculation:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002lfd7
farage: migrants are eating swans
royal parks: no swans were eaten
farage: the fact is, we don't know that it didn't happen
Thus the suggestion is left, & used to open to the door
And the above exchanges are an example of such behaviour. It happens all the time but us cannon fodder spend most of our time hiding in foxholes & didging bullets. We don't have the luxury of long lunches, access to ministerial ears, obscenely inflated salaries or a life spent mixing with powerful & influential thugs.
Probation has been on the receiving end for decades. Probation-focused 'leaders' have been lacking for too many years now, replaced with a predominantly lock-em-up crew. They're shit at doing any number of things, but they sure as shit know how to make what they want to happen, happen - irrespective of the damage it will do. Trusts? TR? £billions lost or missing? Where's the outrage?
NAO: "together with its earlier unsuccessful efforts to stabilise CRCs, the Ministry will pay at least £467 million more than was required under the original contracts. The full costs will not be known until at least December 2020."
And those aditional 'full costs' were buried from public view in the rush to return the CRCs to the bosom of hmpps. Its likely to be close to £1billion.
Stop whining about the past, I hear someone cry (again). OK, so what's next?
Exactly what has been speculated about above, i.e. we'll get to hear the final gulp as hmpps becomes a unified prison-based organisation, swallows probation & dabs the corner of its mouth before emitting a self-satisfied belch.
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/13482_20-x6-Budget-report-Card_Justice-1.pdf
As far as I can see, no mention of Probation Service in that document!
DeleteThere are refs in the initial pages:
Delete"The part privatisation of probation showed that Conservative governments’ approach to justice has been erratic and ill-judged"
"In probation, the system was part-privatised in 2013-2014: the public sector continued to manage high-risk offenders and provided court services, while ‘Community Rehabilitation Companies’ managed low and medium-risk offenders. This proved to be disastrous and a decision was made in 2019 to end private probation contracts two years early and bring all offender management activities back in-house. The Public Accounts Committee said that privatisation “left probation services underfunded, fragile, and lacking the confidence of the courts”; as a result, “probation services have been left in a worse position than they were in before the Ministry embarked on its reforms.” The Ministry’s decision to terminate contracts in December 2020 cost the taxpayer at least £467 million, and further costs were shunted elsewhere in the system."
BUT when we get to:
3. THE POSITIVE VISION NEEDED FOR JUSTICE – THAT ONLY LABOUR CAN PROVIDE
Not a single mention. Which was my point.
Because all parties have the same agenda, to ensure probation fails so they can either turn it into an enforcement agency or erase it from existence. A rehabilitative Probation service as it’s meant to be doesn’t fit with the “tough on crime” narrative which they all think they need to follow to get votes.
Delete"they sure as shit know how to make what they want to happen, happen - irrespective of the damage it will do. Trusts? TR? £billions lost or missing? Where's the outrage?... We get to hear the final gulp as hmpps becomes a unified prison-based organisation, swallows the last of probation & dabs the corner of its mouth before emitting a self-satisfied belch."
DeleteHow many times has it been said on this blog, in academic papers, in research, in submissions to committees and parliament & enquiries?
Dr Seuss knew who they were & wrote a prophetic verse:
Please leave us be. Please go away. We won't listen to you today.
You might write words. You won't be heard. We'll cover them with sloppy turds.
We'll take you down. We'll stop your pay. We won't listen to you today.
Or any day, because we're right. We're never wrong. We're always right.
Lock 'em up. Take 'em down. That's the only game in town.
"A rehabilitative Probation service as it’s meant to be doesn’t fit with the “tough on crime” narrative which they all think they need to follow to get votes." - correct.
tag 'em Danno - https://insidetime.org/newsround/undercover-reporter-finds-serco-tagging-lagging/
"Serco has a duty to attempt to tag prisoners within two days of release. Anyone not tagged within three days is classed as a backlog case. On one day in October last year, the tagging backlog had reached 4,726 cases. Serco said this was not reflective of the “much lower” daily average... Justice Minister Sir Nicholas Dakin responded to a question from the shadow justice secretary, Robert Jenrick, about the backlog last month, saying that prisoners released in the first tranche of the early release scheme had all been tagged within 53 days."
"a duty to attempt within two days" - really?
"all had been tagged within 53 days... Anthony Kirby, Serco’s chief executive, said the company had inherited a significant backlog of untagged prisoners" - from who? Couldn't have been serco as they fiddled their accounts to show everything was just dandy in the candy room.
The lies & misdirections fall from their lips so easily.
Almost as easily as they slip obscene amounts of taxpayer cash into their offshore accounts.
Deletehttps://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/oct/31/andrew-in-line-for-six-figure-payment-and-annual-stipend-from-king-sources-say?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-gb
ReplyDeleteA perefct fit alongside everything else executed with impunity by a few powerful people - genocides, fraud, lies, murder of journalists, the slaughter of innocents, sexual abuse.
What role models are we supposed to hold dear? saville, edwards, starmer, reeves, sunak, johnson, windsor, trump, kirk, vance, epstein, netanyahu, mbs.........?
At least with the Treasury saying those earning £45,000 or less qualify as "working people" us frontline staff are safe in the knowledge it'll be years at the rate we get any pay rises before we will qualify as 'not working...'
ReplyDeleteThe game has changed since the thatcher make your own money era. It's all companies lead ons knock ins and upping the values. Added value bullshit. If your not chasing the 50 pounds notes your out the game and just an observer.
Delete