I'm hearing that recruitment for PO training has fallen off a cliff, standards are falling along with retention rates. I wonder why folks?
Seen on Twitter:-
"I see that PO training is being advertised again. Although I would never advise someone not to apply, I would urge caution. Chat to other probation staff and make sure you know what the job is. If you want to go for it I wish you the best of luck.""Guy I know was asking me about applying. In every convo I had with him over ages, I warned him to lower his expectations. Eventually got on PQiP and lasted 2 weeks before returning to his old job. Couldn't believe the paperwork, demoralised staff and lack of contact with cases."
"Sadly the job is not the vocation we signed up for anymore. Desperately sad to see new colleagues leaving after a few months. Long and short HMPPS are not interested in rehabilitative work with people, just risk assessments that are generic."
"Still relatively new having started in 2015. Often think I've been insulated from how bad it is, as it's been like this all the way through. YJS seconded currently - the longer I'm separated from probation practice, the more my eyes seem opened to the chaos colleagues experience."
--oo00oo--
Postscript
This came in over night and seems extremely prescient:-
The recruitment net has mostly dragged in the wrong type of fish but there are a few with potential. There is a big problem group of millennials who think older more experienced officers are toddlers who should retire asap. I don’t think anyone can blame the old guard for being defensive as they have been put upon time after time and many have been at the top of the salary range for decades seeing the main grade job degraded and perks we used to have such as lease cars, lower caseloads, and professional development opportunities become the stuff of myth.
The job now mainly involves sitting in a poorly equipped airless office typing information into shoddy IT systems with the occasional irritating interruptions by people on the probation conveyor belt. The skill in the job is all but gone replaced by endless regulation designed to take away any professional judgement or autonomy.
You should hear some of the newly qualified officers berating those who have been in the job for decades when they know nothing about life let alone probation work. In years gone by they would have been PSOs and supporting POs but now they think they know it all because they can whizz around computer systems and love filling in forms. Doing assessments is a bit trickier. There are also loads of administrators that no one really knows what they do half the time. There is no penalty for their failure or incompetence as bodies are in short supply and those that would previously be sacked are allowed to cruise along apparently believing the crap work they are doing is good enough - few experienced people to say otherwise.
Most of the smarter POs have decamped long ago and would never be tempted back to the meat grinder. All the PR and flashy videos are peddling lies. It is dirty work now done extremely badly by the majority being propped up by the hard pressed few who refuse to quit. It is the few that I support and are keeping the flame alive for a better probation service."
hmpps at its finest, with it's excellent leaders to the fore:
ReplyDelete"A girl held in a young offenders’ institution was pinned down and forcibly stripped by a group of male prison guards"
Not just the once, but at least twice.
HM Inspector said:
“it was scarcely credible in a jail holding just 165 children with 24 senior managers and 67 other managers that leaders told us they could not give children frequent, structured contact with staff because of a shortage of officers.”
91 well-paid Utter Failures
But in true inspector on-the-fence style, he also said:
"it was a credit to the prison’s governor that most relationships between staff and children were relatively positive compared with other YOIs”
Although I'm not sure that "relatively positive compared with other YOIs" is anything other than damning with faint praise.
MoJ, hmpps, hmcts - its all totally fucked inside out.
https://www.aol.co.uk/news/watchdog-shocked-male-prison-guards-000100716.html
excellent postscript - perhaps some of the disgruntled experienced POs could consider hmiprobation posts? They're recruiting now as well.... but maybe that's not greener grass if you're made to hawk up huge chunks of equivocal bollx?
ReplyDeleteFrom Twitter:-
ReplyDelete"Nice blog and so true, I wouldn't recommend anyone joining the NPS, a poorly lead and managed service which sacrifices main grade staff without a thought. As for the people who are supervised by NPS they are all immaterial."
A friend’s son asked me about joining. He is in his 30s with plenty of life experience and a positive happy go lucky mindset. 20 years ago I’d have been very happy to help him join and felt good about it. Instead I warned him off telling him to steer clear and trust me on it. The reason I did so is because he is a good lad and I know his mum. I wouldn’t want to be responsible for upsetting her and messing up his life.
DeleteFunnily enough, I had a conversation with an offender in a prison this morning who rang for an update on when his parole is likely to be. The conversation went on to other relevant topics and he said he was concerned that he would be allocated another officer in the community if he is released. I agreed that due to other circumstances at play, he most likely would. I agreed that this was not optimal but this is where we are and the times were are in. Gone are the days when we had a lifer from start to release and then in the community. He said he did not want to rehash all his life all over again with someone new and I completely understood that too and in fact sympathised with it. More tellingly, and this is where today's post resonates, he said he did not want an offender manager who did not have life experience. He did not want someone 'young' who has not lived life. He was in his forties and wanted someone who would understand life and some of the issues which affect us all. Unfortunately,
ReplyDelete'...You should hear some of the newly qualified officers berating those who have been in the job for decades when they know nothing about life let alone probation work...'
refers and I absolutely know that he will not get what he wants because in the office I am in, it does not exist although it is very badly needed and they know it. All gone. Those of us who are experienced are regrettably, a dying breed. I stay because now an old cove, I always considered it a vocation and that is very difficult to walk away from for me anyway.
I had a visit to YOI Wetherby yesterday for a legal visit time allocated 1:45pm until 2:45pm. I was sat in the visitors hall at 1:30pm prompt, my young person did not arrive until 14:50pm leaving me with little meaningful contact time. No one informing me of the reasons for the delay, only one member of staff for the first hour professing they were new and didnt know what they were doing. Utter shambles and what I witnessed and observed yesterday, was utterly appalling management from top to bottom.
ReplyDeleteI couldn’t think of anything worse than being a probation officer these days, undervalued, poor training , lack of diversity in workforce , punitive agenda , join the police earn more retire earlier
ReplyDeletePart of the issue with retention for trainees is the job description. ‘Want to make a difference’, ‘rehabilitation’ and all the other buzz words and catchy phrases. If job descriptions were accurate and stated that the job was 90-95% admin and that ‘POPs’ actually get in the way of endless form filling, irrelevant emails, endless NSI’s for everything and ridiculously long repetitive and convoluted Oasys assessments then at least people would enter the role with realistic expectations.
ReplyDeleteCompletely agree. The adds should read ‘Want to fill out long forms and spend hours in front of your computer imagining you are making a difference? Want to be responsible for high risk cases but not have time to work with them? Want to be part of an organisation that doesn’t care about you, those you work with or your local community? If the answer to these questions is ‘Yes’ then you could be the ideal candidate to join the probation service. Under 25, fresh out of uni, naive, not to bright (it helps not to be) No problem. ‘
DeleteIts almost encouraging that HMPPS continue to peddle the "buzz words and catchy phrases". Like a fading recognition that a) that is what identifies probation b) what attracts people to it. Trouble is, what should be a philosophy and culture is just buzz words and catchy phrases. If HMPS really meant it, there would be a big top down strategy to cement a culture of rehabilitation and all that entails. You can't run a cruel, punitive enforcement agency with cruelty and punishment seeping through every HR and practice policy, and the everyday language of the organisation, and just pin a pious message onto the letterhead.
DeleteIf they really mean it, they must follow it up with a root and branch cultural refreshment. And clean separation of Probation from the prison system.
I had a first weekend of retirment moment on Sunday: I felt rising anxiety, then realised that I didnt have to go in and open up the emails the next day. That is true of everybody who ever retired: However, what struck me was that my anxiety was "What have they done?", not "How are they doing?". That is the shift in culture that we have undergone. I recall a decade ago having literally sleepless nights because my lad was coming out of prison and had no accommodation lined up. The idea that a human being for whom I had some responsibility could be in that awful situation filled me with horror. If I couldnt get that sorted, then WTF was I for? Scroll forwards ten years, and without missing a beat, I routinely saw people in the same position, signposted them to a local agency that would- or might- give them a tent, and got back to the keyboard. Where I would, of course, complete an assessment of their risk as raised due to their homelessness, and an evaluation of how that, they, might be managed.
PS "My lad" was doing fine last time I looked. Back then I and a colleague with an awesome little notebook of local contacts, found him a roof for over his head, it wasnt brilliant but we got him there and then on and out to better.
The colleague has like me left, couldnt bear it anymore. And with him his awsome little notebook. Shame. Shame!
Pearly
18:18 Joining the police is like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. Many professions such as teaching, social work, nursing and probation are undervalued. A brief examination of news articles will show that there is relatively little positive coverage reflecting the skills and knowledge of practitioners. The impression is that anyone, even someone fresh out of university can do these jobs. There is plenty of negative coverage regarding those who are considered to have fallen below the standards required. Being sacked is not good enough as they must be sacked and thrown under a bus by their senior leaders. It’s a mixed bag but one thing that unites these professions is that they are mostly feminised. It is probably true that those men who would have joined the probation service in the 80s would not now consider jointing unless they really want to embrace working in a female dominated environment where they will only progress if they are willing to ditch their masculinity. Feminised professions generally suffer low wage increases, tend to be less actively unionised, and in some cases are not considered to be proper professions especially by right wing governments but rather as do gooder vocations where earning money and professional status are secondary to satisfaction gained from caring and helping. This is perpetuated in the media. When the public perception bubble is bust then it is like open season with teachers and young doctors/nurses being portrayed as greedy selfish or lazy and out to harm kids, old people etc but at the same time providing a vital service we all want.
ReplyDeleteCompletely agree with every single word.
DeleteSpot on
Delete“There is a big problem group of millennials who think older more experienced officers are toddlers who should retire asap.”
ReplyDeleteNo, no, no! Most of the older more experienced probation officers I come across should retire asap. They are the rudest and most unhelpful set of people.
I am tired that this set of POs, PSOs, Staff think harping on about their 20 years experience entitles them to think they own the probation office and can be rude and offensive to everyone else.
Worse are the ones older than that who think administrators are servants and can’t do anything unless the admin does it for them.
Once upon a time we had decent experienced staff but now we’re left with the chaff. Out with the old and in with the new.
Usual ageist BS. New and younger staff are not the problem.
ReplyDeleteCorrect. It is the recruitment of young and inexperienced staff that is the problem. Perhaps bring in a mandatory life/work experience test and 6 months voluntary in the local food bank or similar. Probation should never be a first job for someone fresh out of university. It’s double punishment for the punters. We use to weed these people out in the assessment centres as having insufficient life skills but then we were instructed to take anyone with a pulse.
DeleteThey’ve dropped the eligibility criteria because the pay is crap. Nowadays it is very hard to fail a probation job interview.
DeleteCompletely agree with the comments about the wrong type of people being employed. Don't get me wrong, there are a couple in my team with potential but we've also had to have the counter corruption team in as there is now a culture developing of cocaine usage - open secret on nights out with all the younger lot.
ReplyDeleteOdd you should mention that. Never thought I’d see that in my office but it is the way to cope for many PQIPs and NQOs. Just Say No kids.
DeleteAnd how many older POs brag about alcohol and Valium!!
DeleteTwitter exchange:-
ReplyDelete"Happened to be at my local probation office when they had a fire drill. The entire staff assembled in the carpark. It was amazing how nearly all the probation staff looked the same: same age, same gender, same culture background. Completely different from the people they manage."
"Same prejudice?"
"Who is to say? How can someone who has never experienced the socioeconomic and cultural upbringing of one group effectively know, much less manage, another? The don't teach about council estate life in University..."
But how do you know that? Because two people look the same it doesn’t mean they are.
DeleteHardly a professional series of postings. It's a tea factory full of the self idealised. They won't teach staff about council estates they no longer exist under Tory cuts it's all privatised crap. Same as probation no longer probation let's all face it battle is lost.
ReplyDeleteThis isn’t about age, but we definitely need to address the gender and ethnicity balance and lack of life experience for some of the new recruits though. Mainly due to the complexity of issues our clients bring to their supervision. Never have I experienced such difficulty in engagement of the people we work with. IMO this is because we are not spending time with them, building a relationship and doing the work we should be. We are administering a sentence now not delivering rehabilitation. Whilst we allow HMPPS to erode the skills we have, the vocation of probation practice and our value base- we will end up as a service offering nothing other than community enforcers.
ReplyDeleteI think it is too late. I battled on for years before eventually calling it a day as it was impacting on my health. I got disciplined 6 months before I left after a 30 year spotless record. The reason was that I failed to keep records to the required standard. I used to spend time with my clients. I remember my practice teacher saying to me ‘people not paper’ I did not use the prescribed format for contacts and refused to change on the basis that it made no sense. I was directed to look at a good example. This was someone I knew spent on average 10 mins seeing her clients but nevertheless produced long detailed contacts that were grammatically perfect - had a degree in English. I read them all on all her cases and spookily they were all very similar. I am sure one of those plagiarism detectors would have something interesting to say. Not one of my bullet point working notes type entries was the same and accurately reflected the ongoing work. But I am the one in trouble even though I rarely breach and all mine used to show up. It didn’t seem right so I quit. Since quitting I volunteer and litter pick and help out at the local community centre helping refugees. I recently retrained as a counsellor. I feel like I am doing something useful unlike the last 6 months of working in probation when I just felt like an outcast. Quit now and do something useful with your life.
DeleteThey managed you out. They do this a lot. More so to ethnic minority staff.
DeleteNot so minorities are specially protected and despite incompetence this is ignored. Accelerated promotions for most as entitlement this is a disaster in working practices.
DeleteCircles of Support - after removing core funding, now, bit by bit, they slowly chip away at eligibility criteria for essential work because "CoSA are a relatively expensive and intensive resource."
ReplyDeletehttps://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65d5bf112197b2001d7fa71c/cosa-pf.pdf
They just need tick boxing robots these days. I go in for the money. It is miserable. Really negative workplace. If a warehouse job paid better I’d do that. I feel less loyalty to the organisation every day. No one gives a crap anymore. Mind you it’s the same everywhere. Crap government, NHS has gone downhill, rubbish everywhere, levelling up runs downhill to the south. Got a Union email the other day saying HMPPS HQ sent a sick note to the meeting they were supposed to attend. Back in the day employers met with unions at a big meeting called NNC. If the employers wanted to negotiate they were there mob handed. This lot don’t even turn up. They should try a couple of weeks on the frontline then they’d know what feeling sick feels like. Making out they are irreplaceable.
DeleteAt our Birmingham office there are good young officers but also the immature lazy ones. Had to endure a whole morning of chat between 2 about Crocs and what to get for KFC.
ReplyDeleteDiscussions with POPs on loudspeaker. The officers should be sitting with their own teams but hide in the attic space saved for hot desking as they know they can get away from doing hardly any work. It isn't an age thing just the type of person who has no desire to put in the work with a bad attitude.
Management are fully aware but only care about weekly quizzes and everything on the diversity calendar
Yes and this appears to be the notorious office in Birmingham that hit the blog a few months ago. How long do they let this PDU head continue to manage before action is taken, or he is made accountable for decisions made within his PDU. It is shocking to know that this is happening in one office and in the another office within the same PDU has overworked staff who manage unworkable caseloads. My understanding is that he has allowed one office to function in green prioritisation framework by resourcing it and left the other office in amber with WMT for officers at up to 180% ! How is it possible to have 2 offices in a PDU working 2 prioritisation frameworks ? Why is a head allowed to treat people in this way ?
DeleteThe SPO involved in the weekly quizes and the diversity calendar takes the time out of her work load to look at ways we can embrace culture and diversity within the workplace, also boosting morale. The team work hard to "acknowledge everything on the diversity calendar" and put on events that brings the office together, more often than not in our own time and money out of our own pocket. Whilst there must be a very genuine concern for you to voice your opinion on a public platform, I can assure you that meetings take place outside of work hours or in our lunch breaks. We are always looking for people with strong opinions and great ideas (Your post wasn't one of them by the way) to join the team.
DeleteI'm not surprised that Probation recruitment has fallen of a cliff edge. Many of the younger potential Probation Officers are very media savvy and well versed with social media which gives numerous accounts of the toxicity of Probation. They are forewarned about the blame culture and grinding workloads and probably (and sensibly) choose to look for work elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteFrom Twitter:-
ReplyDelete"As a young idealistic new probation officer told me before he quit the service: "You can [do] more good for your community and society by working for any organisation other than Probation."
From Twitter:-
ReplyDelete"Younger staff realise we can find identical office work anywhere else for more money and older staff with world's of experience can't comprehend that what was once direct face to face work is now 90% laptop based."
From Twitter:-
ReplyDelete"I can't imagine they upped their game for older, experienced employees either if my experience is anything to go by - 7 years ago now! Resigning, whilst a financial dog's dinner (for me!), probably saved my sanity - if not my pension contributions. Dedicated fool for too long."
Probation is not about doing good it’s a poorly paid policing function.
ReplyDeleteMoJ budget cut by £half-a-billion by *unt
ReplyDeletehttps://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/budget-cash-for-dispute-resolution-but-moj-spending-cut-by-500m/5118972.article
"budget spending limits published today show a planned 4.8% cut in operational spending on justice to £10bn in 2024-25, from £10.5bn in 2023-24. Capital spending, however, will rise by 20% from £1.5bn to £1.8bn in 2024-25."
More prison buildings, fewer courts, less service provision.
From statista (could it be "the" d.clark, he of oasys fame?):
Budget of the Ministry of Justice in the United Kingdom 2004-2023
Published by D. Clark, Feb 13, 2024
In 2022/23 the budget for the United Kingdom's Ministry of Justice was 10.1 billion British pounds, a fairly significant increase on the 8.3 billion pounds budgeted in the 2019/20 financial year. Prior to 2021, the budget for the Ministry of Justice peaked in 2009/10 at 9.1 billion pounds, before the coalition government of 2010 adopted a fiscal policy of austerity, which led to spending cuts in most governmental departments. Between 2010/11 and 2015/16 the Ministry of Justice's budget shrank from 9.08 billion pounds to 7.35 billion pounds, approximately 1.75 billion pounds of cuts overall.
I deliver the training in a university and used to be a practice tutor assessor. I was surprised to be appointed as a Senior Lecturer causing resentment in the university amongst those who were jumping through hoops but money talks in privatised HE. I was glad to get out of probation as they are not good employers. None of the comments on here surprise me. Some of the students are very young and not life experienced at all. They are still at the living at home/partying and personal experimentation stage. They are good at doing online learning when they are up in time but find face to face interaction with colleagues and service users challenging and less fun than debating gender issues and dyeing their hair green. We hear many stories of unprofessional behaviour towards them but much is as a result of a lack of people skills or respect for expertise. They are often very young people who have led sheltered middle class lives. They feel very hurt when they are criticised for knowing little and lacking experience. Most are terrified of service users who they simply cannot relate to and appear to them gross. They were attracted to probation because of watching true crime tv The dirty messy reality of frontline work is for many simply overwhelming and they retreat into their computers for safety and try to shut out the realities of the real world. Perhaps they will come up to speed eventually if their weaknesses go unnoticed but as the staff to case ratio slowly decreases they will have nowhere to hide.
ReplyDeleteThe news today about a new probation officer messing up will be seen as devastating as it throws an unwelcome spotlight on a serious problem well illustrated by other contributors. Most new qualified officers will be entirely out of depth with a case like that and not personally equipped to deal with the fall out. An experienced colleague may well have read the signs but these days staff are under so much pressure. There is no recovery time or time to reflect. No time for supportive debriefs and lessons learned. A very awful sort of job nowadays but someone has to do it. I wonder if it is not time for root and branch change?
Really insightful and thought-provoking contribution. I take the point about naivety. I think the failings in said case are part of wider issues. You can’t manage risk when there is no housing or mental health services for people other than at very high / immediate risk. Cannabis use however heavy would rarely invoke a quick intensive response from drug and alcohol services - Their primary focus is heroin, crack and alcohol and rightly so. These reviews of very sad tragic events do not adequately consider hindsight bias. There are now so many review processes in place under various pieces of law or statutory guidance. Pretty much all of them point to the same issues. We really have overdone self-reflection. We need to get on with doing something about these issues! The whole social contract needs renewing and soon if not now!
DeleteWell said anonymous 14:37. All very well releasing people early and cutting down recall times to relieve pressure on prison spaces but how about cutting down on sending people to prison and investing in mental health, housing and addiction services?
DeleteWhy isn't our government looking at countries who have falling prison and offending stats and seeing what they are doing well. Doesn't win votes?
I trained at a time when you were expected to have significant life and work experience prior to training. We had to cut our teeth on roles such as residential child care or youth work etc, It helped to sort the wheat from the chaf. You knew what you were getting into and whether you had the resilience and understanding to do the job. That's all changed now and with it retention will plummet. Also the job was nowhere near as stressful back when I started. Yes, it was very challenging, always has been but you felt supported and there was not the idiotic beauracracy there is now. I didn't go to work daily worrying about an SFO, who has stabbed who or died from drugs overdose, the lack of support for service users with such complex mental health issues. I would not recommend this job to anyone, not to my children or anyone else I know. How could I do that whilst I know the level of angst and the mental health issues this job has brought to me. Anxiety and PTSD symptoms to name a few. I would advise people to steer clear and avoid being an AI 'screw on wheels', forced to bang up people with MH issues and complex personality disorders, no autonomy, just part of a broken system, then hauled over hot coals when something out of your control happens. Too much responsibility too much stress and compromised beliefs and not enough respect or rewards. Can't even tell friends or public what you do, they have not understanding or could react negatively if they do and you get no social recognition such as a Doctor, nurse, teacher would get despite the important job we have trying to.keep.the public safe. This is something we rarely acknowledge in my opinion but its important.
ReplyDeleteThis leaves you feeling undervalued and invisible and saps your self esteem. You feel like a persona non grata, if that's the correct Latin as I can't be bothered to check!
This is spot on
DeleteAre we not all in this together (pqip, nqo, PO with 20 years experience)? Surely we should be, do we not want the same things, did we not join the service for broadly the same things? Why are so many of you criticising the young people or criticising the experienced practitioners. Working at probation is pretty dire at the moment and fighting each other and turning against colleagues doesn't help. I'm an NQO with the utmost respect for experienced colleagues and I have found every single one of my team exceptionally helpful. I'm sorry others haven't but can we not support each other through this s@@t show and try get through together?
ReplyDeleteNot all experiences are equal. Not all people join or stay in any job for the same reasons. We’d be naive to think they are.
DeleteMinisters have said that only low level cases will be eligible for early release but I've heard that high risk cases could also end up coming out early
ReplyDelete