Trials and Tribulations of Probation Recruitment

With TR having driven out many highly-qualified probation staff, both POs and PSOs, there is now a critical shortage of staff across the board. For several years the situation has been masked by a massive increase in the use of agency staff - in many instances the very people who were driven out by TR of course - but this avenue is now becoming depleted.

With talk of reducing the use of prison and tendering for TR2 in progress, there's currently a desperate recruitment campaign in progress via social media with cynics suggesting a rather rosy picture of life in the NPS is being projected. Issues such as piss-poor IT and office accommodation spring to mind, but it's also interesting to see how Facebook provides the perfect platform for other issues to be raised by putative recruits:-  

The requirement for a level 5 qualification is ageist. Many people in their mid fifties never had the opportunity or inclination to go to higher education, as the employment requirements of the time were different. A much fairer way to recruit, would be for someone to demonstrate the relevant skills. For a position like that of probation officer, life skills and experience are of great benefit. I find it difficult to understand how I can be qualified to make decisions regarding someones eligibility for state benefits (former DWP EO), or their level of need for social housing (former local authorities housing officer), but cannot apply for a position where I can help someone turn their life around.

Totally agree with you! Life skills and experience should be top priority.

Because you will be assessing risk and managing high risk offenders. I have mentored many older people who have completed a level five diploma in their fifties. I've recently completed an additional one myself in leadership and management.

Couldn't of put it better myself. x

Totally agree. Obviously a good education is required however common sense, life skills and dealing with others is just as important. You could have every qualification going and what does that prove? You can sit in a room study and retain information!

There’s many people already in the service and can not progress to being qualified as they don’t have a level 5 and they have been doing the job 10 years! It is crazy.

I'm one module away from a level 5 but could never dream of getting into debt for £2800 on the off chance I was hired.... And I have loads of relevant qualifications plus experience plus life experience..But this is pie in the sky for me.

I'm studying my masters at the tender age of 47 ... no excuse go for it! Thing is probation service won't have me ironically because I made a criminal mistake at 18 .. have three degrees plus life skills but I'm NOT lily white ... good for showing how lives can be turned around but nope I'm not good enough.

Depends what the conviction was at 18 and given ur 47 that was a long time ago.

Totally and utterly agree!

That’s awful you would be the perfect example what a dumb rule !!! X

I don't have any desire to return to education. The point I was making, was many qualifications mean very little apart from proving that you can retain information. There are thousands of people with perfectly adequate educational backgrounds that are being ignored in the job market, simply because they didn't go to university. People with real life experience. It's the same with social work. These are careers where common sense and life experience, are much more useful than diplomas etc.

I did 15yrs in CJ. Didn't get through first time I applied. 2nd time YES got accepted. then 'the change' happened.... I went CRC - not my choice - and never got to start. I didn't have a level 5 then. I was overtaken by people never done the job before....but they had a degree. Now I have a level 5.... not in my area for PQiP.... yet...

It's time that the civil service and local government looked at the potential they are missing out on by sticking to these arbitrary rules.

You can apply to be a PSO without a Level 5 and if you have no inclination to do education then you wouldn’t be fit to do the programme as it’s doing a degree alongside working full time.

I did a career change .. to enable being able to help others trying to get a life instead of existing. I wrongly assumed that I would get into criminal rehab and support services because of my life experiences. I studied psychology and criminology to enable me to apply to real life, I'm now furthering to specialise in addiction only to find out that because of my childhood error they won't employ me due to having to work with vulnerable people .... does not make sense to me at all?

By the way ... graduates are also ignored in the job markets it does not guarantee obtaining a job any longer.

You are missing my point entirely. The point is a level 5 qualification means nothing more than you can retain information. I know people with degrees that struggle to string a sentence together, let alone prepare a report. By using arbitrary rules for recruitment, an extremely large talent pool is being missed. Unless you left school in the '60s or '70s it is hard to understand why someone didn't go on to higher education. It was a time when you could walk into almost any job you wanted.

I'm well aware. Just grateful I'm getting to the end of my working life and not just starting out.

I don't disagree they are vital. A good level of education is important. The job involves a considerable amount of legal report writing and chairing various multi-agency meetings.

Just curious as I also have a chequered past did you apply and was refused for criminal record....? Are you already working with vulnerable people?

I was a housing officer for years, then worked in senior positions in child protection and planning all due to my hard work and experience. The latest craze is for housing officers to be recruited directly from uni. Most totally clueless on the ground, no idea how to deal with real people, never seen a council estate in their lives.

Yep there was a number of young people on my bachelors .. intended on going into social work their opinions and outlook was horrendously immature and within the SS would be dangerous! Life experiences DO over rule academic knowledge BUT stupidly is not considered when making an application. I was advised that any role working with vulnerable people would be non existing BUT I am in process of application .. with an institution which works to educate ex offenders within prison and externally .. so fingers crossed for me .. the positions are out there but few and far between.

The fact that the role requires legal report writing and chairing multi agency meetings, shouldn't automatically mean that people without a level 5 qualification are disregarded. As a housing officer I prepared reports for court and chaired meetings with other agencies. The fact someone doesn't have a qualification, doesn't mean that they are not capable of performing to the same standards as someone with qualifications. Relevant experience should be sufficient to prove ones capabilities.

I absolutely agree n ur not alone I’m in CRC many of my colleagues are in that exact same situation. X

I think you can apply to have a conviction taken off record. I was reading about it. Can you get a 30 minute free solicitor chat to see if it's possible. There are some sites that might know.

I left school in the early 70's and yes jobs where two a penny. I did my degree as a mature student and am starting PQiP at the age of 61.

Trying to train some of those people who are straight out of uni was very challenging to say the least. Paper qualifications are worthless in that environment unless you have good people skills, empathy and the ability to be tough in equal measure.

Who advised you that? I worked in probation over 10 yrs and my past is far from perfect. Unless you have an offence against child or vulnerable adult they will not discriminate, look at the rehabilitation of offenders act.

I agree it’s quite a harsh level of qualification as you are more than experienced. x

Good for you. But I'm not discussing mature students, the requirement for a degree or similar is arbitrary.

There is a significant academic component to the PQiP qualification, under the supervision of a local University. Without previous evidence of studying to that level, it would be difficult for the NPS to take on candidates and potentially set them up to fail. I totally agree that life skills/ previous working experience are invaluable (often more so than academic ability/knowledge).

I agree.. 20 yrs experience but I can’t progress..

If someone has evidence that they have been successful in comparable roles, where legal and technology knowledge are key elements, I don't believe they would be set up to fail. Personally speaking, I have been a housing officer, a DWP decision maker and an adviser for ACAS, during my working life. All of these have required a deep understanding of relevant law and it's application, in the case of benefits decisions, a rapidly changing landscape, due to case law. I would argue that, someone with the ability to perform a similar role, would suggest they are capable of the study required for PQIP.

Really? It's well worth investigation thanks for heads up I'll check it out.

No my offences weren't of that nature far from it ... it was an adviser at the job centre to be honest he wasn't very good and told me I'd have a better chance of employment if I removed my degree from my CV! I haven't given up with this not at all! I will achieve my goal ...might be 70 with a beard living in a loft smoking a pipe but I'll get there hahah.

I have nothing against someone getting a degree, whatever age they are. I have an issue with employers not being able to think past pieces of paper and take someone's experience into account.

Nothing stopping you from getting a qualification now... age is nothing but a number.

Your conviction will be spent therefore no need to formally tell them. I would just have a quiet word - have a look at the unlock website it will give you the info there and more details.

Whilst I 100% get your point that the applications should be open to those with heaps of experience, the job pays well so it’s gonna be competitive so they’re gonna want people with a degree and the experience. The questions on the competency section focused on your personal experiences not what degree you’ve acquired.

Life skills get in the way for this job.

Doesn't matter. Any conviction is enough. Many probation officers like to act superior.

Criminal record is for life.

I agree with you.

May be spent, but civil service applicants are checked for any conviction, spent or current.
CRC are looking for people to go pqip. x

You usually need to be the relevant line of work before undertaking a level 5 qualification as you use your experience to write your assignments. I completed level 5 courses in my 50s. It’s much easier when you have experience and job knowledge.

Nonsense, it’s not about retaining information, the qualifications are usually portfolio based not end tested.

I left school in the very early 80s. At that point less than 4% of school leavers went on to university.

I totally agree. I cant afford to go back to education. Have over 25 years of life and work experience for social work but can't apply as I don't have the qualifications. Same with this position.

Fantastic response and so true! So many jobs I can’t apply for so I can never further my career!

I'll look into it. x

Where did you hear they wouldn’t have you because of a historical mistake? I work in the service and know that to be untrue. x

Train to be a Probation Officer Hi Xxxxx thanks for your comments, and interest in our Probation Officer roles. Please send us an inbox message, so we can give you more information about our Probation Services Officers opportunities. Thank you.

You seem like the ideal person as you have been there and turned your life around, things like that annoy me.

I am indeed interested .... how is it I haven't had an invite to message you directly? Is this due to my honesty with my chequered past?

Same here it is disappointing! I have supported many young people on different aspects homelessness, unemployment, pregnancies just as a friend, my children's friends seek me out to chat tell me 'I'm on the level' they accept my words they are now progressing.

Xxxxx has been invited to apply haha well done! 

Incidentally one of my 'friends' is now at college (he was stealing cars to make money) he is now on a pathway to learning mechanics ....

It was a careers adviser that informed me it was unlikely ... I am actually going to make an application. .. my other comments have been removed?

Thankyou I will do! Seems my career adviser is clueless

Train to be a Probation Officer  Hi Xxxx, we would be happy to give you more information via the inbox, too.

l have a record and I'm employed with vulnerable people.... Don't let it stop you.... Good luck xx

Brilliant! Thankyou so much! X

I haven't got a level 5 qualification either. I have 20 years experience running a business that specialises in dealing with anger, aggression and violence. I have also trained probation and CRC staff. Is there a chance that this might be considered?

I am in my 40's and I am just completing a level 6 degree. And studying any topic is proving a lot more than just the fact you can retain information! Also you can apply to be a PSO without having a level 5. But with you saying you have no interest in getting a qualification then sadly the pqip programme wouldn't be for you anyway as you will be studying that qualification and the level 6 in criminal justice at the same time as working.

I too agree. They then coming about skills shortages but make it so difficult for people trying to get into different professions.

I don’t meet the eligibility criteria, what is my route to becoming a Probation Officer?

If you already know you don't yet meet the requirements to apply for the PQiP, there are a number of routes to beginning your career in criminal justice.

You can apply to become a Probation Services Officer (PSO). PSOs perform a similar role to fully qualified Probation Officers. The main difference is you won’t work with the highest risk offenders that Probation Officers work with so you don’t need a qualification to apply. All new PSOs undertake a comprehensive induction, including the Gateway to Practice training course and, a Level 3 Vocational Qualification in Probation Practice.

If you already have the required experience and a relevant Level 3 vocational qualification, you will have an opportunity to demonstrate your ability to study at a higher level by undertaking a short Level 4 study programme, otherwise known as an access route. If you complete this successfully, you will be able to enrol on a bespoke Level 5 distance learning course with one of the approved universities. This normally takes a year to complete. 

Successful completion of which will provide eligibility to apply for the PQiP training programme.

I am currently in post. My colleague did not have level 5 so is currently being sponsored for modules (paid for) so she can apply for the training. You should apply for PSO (one band under working with medium risk cases) and go for sponsored route once you're in role. So there are other ways to do the training, and it's a fairer process now :)