Saturday, 11 March 2017

Those New Operating Models

From yesterday:-

Working Links delivering 'In Touch' telephone case management to lower risk cases. How is this working out in practice? Remember what SFO stats reveal - more likely for lower risk cases to commit SFO's. How can you monitor for subtle changes in acute risk factors over the phone? When individuals have regular face to face human contact, it's possible to see if someone's deteriorating e.g losing weight through substance misuse, not taking care of themselves through depression, rough-sleeping etc.

As transformation comes to an end in WL CRC's, how capable are the new operational models of protecting the public?

The Manchester inspection has already revealed that the CRC is not protecting the public. As with regards the interchange model it is not being implemented, even if it was it's a load of bollocks, so the answer to your question is that the operating models are NOT fit or capable of protecting the public and are only designed to make profits.


Unfortunately the Interchange model within CGM CRC is going to be rolled out again, even though like you said it's absolutely shite (I think your actual words were "a load of bollocks")! 

Case managers are going to be put through their paces as it seems that they're in the firing line after the Inspection (yet again it seems being blamed for being ineffective) - SCM's are going to be responsible for the training of said staff - CM's are being expected to not only manage a case load but also be put through core skills training (pass or fail accredited programme training) with the expectation that not only will they hold case loads but also run all groups accredited and otherwise - resulting in an impossible task of being able to effectively risk manage the low to medium case they supervise, a great deal of which are DV cases - due to this stress levels are on the increase leading on to the fact that Interserve has introduced a new sickness policy (01/03/17) which it seems will allow them to "get rid of staff" much sooner than previously legistated that have been on sick leave that they deem not fit for work!

It's absolutely soul destroying to listen to the powers-that-be bang on about "innovative ways of working" (what the hell this means is totally beyond me) - management seem to think that having all this new technology will enable staff to work more effectively - to date it's been nothing but a f*****g hinderence.

I would like to hope that with the strength and bravery of the two mother's Andrea Sharpe and Nadine Marshall who were unfortunate to have tragically lost their boys that someone will stand up, take notice and responsibility for the mess that we are experiencing on both sides (CRC and NPS) of the criminal justice system - I know I'm probably hoping/dreaming for the impossible, but it's the one thing the corrupt bastards can't take away!


Interestingly, there is an opportunity to help deliver the Interchange Model:-

Chief Operating Officer

Job purpose

To provide strategic leadership and development of the Community Rehabilitation Company, together with implementing the broader Interserve vision and Interchange Model towards reducing reoffending and protecting the public. To drive high performance, and quality of service delivery, ensuring contractual and financial compliance. To provide high level leadership to operational and practice improvement projects across the 5 Interserve CRCs.

  • Ensure the delivery and integrity of the Interserve Interchange Model to reduce reoffending and optimise rehabilitation.
  • Under the direction of the CEO, lead and direct the organisation in formulating, developing and implementing strategies and policies towards achieving the government’s transforming rehabilitation contract and Interserve’s strategic aims.
  • Drive continuous improvement through leading the implementation of the Quality Management System.
  • Provide strategic direction to senior operational managers by defining standards and performance objectives and ensure effective measurements to measure operational outputs.
  • Develop and maintain strong local networks and optimise working relationships with key local agencies and stakeholders, including National Probation Service, the Ministry of Justice, the Office of the Police and Crime Commissioner, Police, Local Authorities and others.
Knowledge skills & experience
  • Experience of senior level operational management
  • Knowledge and understanding of the strategic and political issues which impact on criminal justice and offender rehabilitation.
  • Experience of strategic operational planning and the effective deployment of available resource to meet operational demands.
  • Leading and managing large scale organisational and cultural change.
  • Experience of budgetary control and financial planning to support operational requirements
  • Leading complex, multi-faceted projects.
  • Experience of multi-agency work and cultivating successful partnerships.
  • DRIVE – Analyses information to draw insights and conclusions. Creates the plan to achieve our vision, sets the direction of travel and makes it clear who is responsible for what part.
  • ENGAGE – Creates, strengthens and manages great relationships of all types and at all levels – colleagues and customers.
  • THRIVE – Looks after him/herself to stay strong, develop to potential, perform at peak.
  • INSPIRE – Gives clarity, shares passion, embraces change, builds momentum. Acts with integrity and leads by example.
  • DEVELOP – Supports and develops colleagues and staff so that they perform to full potential.
  • DELIVER – Takes charge to ensure ‘right first time delivery’ to delight our customers; even in times of ambiguity.
  • INNOVATE – Encourages and embraces new ideas to achieve better results.
Additional job board text

We are looking for an experienced Chief Operating Officer to work from our Fareham office in Hampshire, the role will also involve travel to London and the North. This role is offered on a full time basis. In return we are offering a £70 - £75k competitive salary, plus company car allowance bonus, 25 days annual leave entitlement, share plans, company pension and private medical insurance.

Due to the nature of the work for this role the successful candidate will be required to apply for an Enhanced Disclosure through the Disclosure & Barring Service. Further information on the Disclosure process can be found at

Interserve's vision is to redefine the future for people and places. We are one of the world's foremost support services and construction companies, operating in the public and private sectors in the UK and internationally. We offer advice, design, construction, equipment, facilities management and front-line public services. Interserve is based in the UK and is listed in the FTSE 250 index. We have gross revenue of £3.62 billion and a workforce of 80,000 people worldwide.



And report to a brand new boss at Interserve:- 

Interserve appoints new chief executive

Ms White will replace current chief executive Adrian Ringrose, who announced in November that he would be stepping down after nearly 14 years at the helm of the construction and services firm. Ms White, who is currently CEO of services firm Sodexo’s global government and healthcare business, will become Interserve’s new chief on 1 September. Mr Ringrose will remain in the post until Ms White takes over.

Ms White has led Sodexo’s worldwide government and healthcare business since 2015. In 2004, she joined Sodexo as the company’s chief financial officer before being promoted to CEO for UK & Ireland in 2012, where she oversaw profit and revenue growth during her time. She began her career at former accounting giant Arthur Andersen in the UK, before joining AstraZeneca where she held a wide range of financial roles. She later became a director at PwC Consulting where she worked across a number of sectors in a global role.

Ms White joins Interserve with the company in a tough financial position following spiralling costs linked to its exit from the energy-from-waste market. Last week it posted a total pre-tax loss of £94.1m for the year ending 31 December 2016, including a 3.1m loss in its construction business. The firm subsequently confirmed to Construction News that its construction arm would shrink as it begun to focus more on jobs with a value of £10m and under.

Interserve Chairman Glyn Barker said: “Having conducted an extensive search and selection process, I am delighted that Debbie White is joining Interserve as CEO. “Debbie has considerable experience and expertise and a strong track record of success in running complex businesses in the international support services sector. I am confident that, under Debbie’s leadership, the team will deliver the change and growth necessary to take Interserve forward and enhance shareholder value.”

Ms White commented: “I am delighted to be joining Interserve. Over the years I have had a great respect for the company and its people and I am looking forward to leading the organisation into a new era.”


  1. Sickening. Seems like they want a superficial, vacuous robot that doesn't actually need to know or understand anything about public protection. Would be funny if it weren't so utterly nauseous. And "redefine the future..." sounds Orwellian. And as for that ridiculous overuse of "drive.." railroad and plunder more like.

  2. The Emperor has never had such a choice of garments.

    Here's a retro wardrobe to plunder from 2000 (link to document below):

    "Case management is a problematic term which is used to describe diverse practices spanning probation, community mental health and social service settings. In this report the term refers to: the staffing structures and organisational processes in place to coordinate and integrate all aspects of community supervision, from the initial offender risk and need assessment, through to programme delivery and the intended completion of the order. The research explored the role of other probation staff and partnership agencies in co-ordinating and delivering community sentences."

    1. Or this link takes one to a chapter from a Sage publication:

  3. Guess the year (from Hansard) -

    "On the other hand, the Probation Service is to be cut. I shall not argue about figures; everyone agrees that it is to be cut. According to official figures the cut is not very severe; but it is definite and pronounced. According to the leaders of the Probation Service, the National Association of Probation Officers and the Association of Chief Officers of Probation, it is much more serious than it appears and is cumulative in its effect. People like Mr. Harry Fletcher of the National Association of Probation Officers and leading representatives of the Association of Chief Officers of Probation would say that if this policy of steadily and remorselessly cutting the Probation Service were to be continued, the lasting effect would be overwhelming.

    I shall give only one small example of the kind of thing that is happening. At present I happen to be visiting Wandsworth Prison twice a week. There were 14 probation officers at the prison; the number is being reduced to five. Those responsible for welfare are to be reduced to two. That sort of thing cannot be done without causing very serious damage to any idea of rehabilitation.

    I give one other small personal example. A very remarkable gentleman, Mr. Bob Tierney, whom I have mentioned before, was in prison for 17 years and has now become a probation officer. That is a rather wonderful achievement in the circumstances. But what are his prospects? He has a one-year contract, and after that, who knows? That is what members of the Probation Service face today. Anyone who adopts such a policy will be doing lasting damage, not only to the Probation Service itself but to the whole future of social work in this country."

    1. From the same debate...

      "We are talking about an underestimated, under-appreciated aspect of public service. Although we are talking of the Probation Service, I include the Prison Service. Prison officers and probation officers do not get the credit that they deserve for what they do. It is one of the dirty jobs in society and in the main they do it without complaining and without blaming anyone else. One of the purposes of tonight's debate is to give them some encouragement and support that in the House of Lords they have friends who understand the problems."

    2. It is, the more I read, the debate that doesn't stop giving up pure, timeless gold:

      "I looked for greater enlightenment at The Three-Year Plan for the Probation Service. I was very disappointed. At times I found it incomprehensible. It is full of aims, priorities, standards, goals, targets and KPIs. I was sufficiently unfamiliar with the buzzwords of current management jargon that I had to reflect awhile on the meaning of KPIs. I now understand that they refer to key performance indicators. It was a difficult report to follow, and certainly not reassuring. It was very difficult to find the word "rehabilitation", to which the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, has referred. It contained no flavour of what the Probation Service did and why it existed. I could find only one short sentence in 49 glossy pages dealing with what were called new qualifying training arrangements for probation officers. That was the only reference that I could find to the matters that we have discussed twice in your Lordships' House to which we attach the greatest possible importance."

    3. "The Green Paper introduced the proposition of a single integrated sentence to replace the range of sentences. It would then be a matter for the courts in open court—it is important to emphasise open court—to address the sentencing needs appropriate to the offence committed. The main elements to be addressed included punishment in the community, restriction of liberty, reparation, and the prevention of re-offending, which of course includes rehabilitation. In that way, the offender before the court, instead of having a sentence meted out in terms of hours, weeks, or years, and then awaiting a visit to the probation officer to find out what it meant, would know the length of the sentence and what was expected of him or her at the time of being sentenced. That would result in a more transparent system and would go some way towards enabling the public to know the effect of the sentence. The hope was that it would dispel the perception that a community sentence is a soft option."

    4. "All parts of the House were strongly represented and all speakers said roughly the same as I submitted in my convictions at the beginning of the debate: that there is no possible justification for the cuts in the Probation Service when this country is richer than it has ever been, and in view of the large increase in the prison population. I repeat: there is no possible justification for those cuts. No such justification has been provided, not even from the Front Bench."

    5. As you say, pure gold. Can we have the link please? No idea as to year I'm afraid.

    6. There's oodles more goodies in the debate. Enjoy!!

      Oh, its July 1997

    7. Interesting read, how the wheel turns? Informed and considered Lords debate refreshing compared to sound bite Commons.

    8. "The Probation Service was established to pick up the pieces after all else had failed and people had offended. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Graham of Edmonton. There is often unfair criticism of the Probation Service and a lack of appreciation of probation officers and their work when they are the people who are called upon to deal with some of the community's most difficult problems."

      Now, however, the Probation Service is in tatters. Systematic cuts, strategic transfers of power & political manipulation of the media have allowed successive governments to totally fuck things up. First you interrupt & amend the training, then you re-arrange & re-organise: NPS (mk.1), Noms, Trusts, Ministry of Justice, NPS (mk.2) & CRCs, HMPPS, blah, blah, blah.

      Pack of self-serving, ignorant bastards, the whole lot of them - from Howard through Straw to Grayling, Gove & Truss. That includes Kenny Clarke in his pomp, despite his more lucid observations in recent months.


    1. 'Another cited factor was the “churn” of private healthcare providers following the decision to contract services in prisons to external providers. One psychiatrist, who works in a prison housing more than 300 women, said healthcare provisions had been “impacted significantly” by moving from the NHS to a private provider.'

    2. Prison psychiatrists warn care is ‘at breaking point’

      Prison psychiatrists are feeling so frightened at work that many are finding it “impossible” to provide a basic level of care to inmates, according to the latest research to document the deteriorating conditions inside Britain’s jails.

      Another instance of the ongoing crisis arrived as dozens of prisoners were evacuated from HMP Guys Marsh after an inmate torched his clothes on the building’s roof, triggering a “large fire”. Although no one was hurt it emerged that during the Dorset jail’s last inspection, investigators concluded it was in “crisis”, that managers and staff had “all but lost control” and violence was so endemic inmates lived in fear.

      This follows other prison riots, including one at Winson Green prison in Birmingham last year.

      Declining safety levels insde the penal system are underlined by a new survey that found assaults on psychiatrists, and that up to 30 healthcare appointments a day have been cancelled in some jails because there are not enough officers to escort staff between cells and clinics.

      The research by the Royal College of Psychiatrists (RCP) – launched after concerns that members were no longer able to deliver adequate mental health services in prisons – reveals that staff feel physically intimidated and unsafe.

      One respondent predicted a mass exodus of psychiatrists from the prison service, largely for safety reasons as the ratio of prison officers to inmates falls as low as two to 100 in some facilities.

      Experts have long warned of high levels of mental illness in the prison population, with one estimate suggesting that about 21,000 people – approaching a quarter of the total prison population of 85,442 – have bipolar disorder, depression or personality disorders. Other studies show that around a quarter of women and 15% of men in prison reported psychotic episodes. The rate among the general public is about 4%.

      One anonymous prison psychiatrist interviewed for the survey said: “It is important that there is wider public recognition of the impossibility of delivering adequate health care in many prisons at present and, given that serious mental disorders are common among prisoners, a failure to meet their needs may, in turn, exacerbate risks to the safety of the prisons.”

      The survey interviewed a consultant psychiatrist in each of the RCP’s nine regions in England and Wales to provide a narrative assessment of the state of prison healthcare in their area.

      The responses reveal working conditions that are close to intolerable, with one describing how colleagues “constantly swim against the tidal wave of overwhelming morbidity”. They continued: “Even those who are very experienced and efficient in their approach to prison psychiatry are beginning to crack under the pressure. In summary, the feedback is that prison is a really unpleasant place to work, with many I spoke to looking at ways to get out.”

      A lack of prison staff also meant that psychiatrists reported problems getting access to unwell prisoners in their cells – at least four prison officers are needed to accompany a psychiatrist to visit an inmate. Another respondent said: “Several others have expressed concern about their safety when they have to go to a wing to see prisoners who cannot get to the clinic or refuse to come. A lack of information makes them feel exposed.”

      One side-effect is that prisoners with mental health issues are being targeting by other inmates. As one respondent said: “There are worrying reports of prisoners, especially those with serious mental illness, being bullied, exploited and isolated, with little chance of them being supported or protected – of an increase in self-harming and assault.”

    3. The psychiatrist continued: “Clinics are busier and more disorganised. Colleagues express concerns about assessing or managing high-risk patients with little information or time, and feeling unsupported and wary of criticism if there is a serious adverse outcome. Access to psychological interventions is limited or non-existent. Listener, chaplaincy and counselling services are at breaking point.”

      The increasingly unsafe environment is also highlighted by the fact that some prisoners feel sufficiently emboldened to try to intimidate female psychiatrists with overt sexism. One respondent said: “In prisons for men there has been an upsurge in sexist behaviour. Young women in particular, as they walk to appointments in the prison, have been harassed by prisoners shouting in chorus in such terms as: ‘Get yer tits out’.”

      They continued: “There is no surprise that this is unchecked because of the greater tensions, but it is hardly fostering a climate in which anyone feels particularly safe and included, or promoting rehabilitation.”

      Another cited factor was the “churn” of private healthcare providers following the decision to contract services in prisons to external providers. One psychiatrist, who works in a prison housing more than 300 women, said healthcare provisions had been “impacted significantly” by moving from the NHS to a private provider. They said that there had been “several self-inflicted deaths” of prisoners identified as high risk.

      Professor Pamela Taylor, chair of the RCP’s forensic faculty, urged justice secretary Liz Truss to either reduce prisoner numbers or create a better ratio of officers to prisoners. She said: “Psychiatrists and other mental health staff feel so vulnerable in the prison environment now that they cannot do even the most basic things for their patients. We must remember that, eventually, prisoners will return to the community outside.”

  5. Back to subject can someone how this is actually going? Presumably you are talking about CRC in Wales or maybe Devon and Cornwall? It isn't happening yet in BGSW CRC ..Bristol etc. As we have not reached end state as they call it yet. Our only innovation so far is laptops that we have to lock to our desks..a few RAR groups that take place during the day so don't suit most of my working DV caseload. Many offices are not fit for purpose and I hear that one in particular is in a public library and there is only one private room between about six supervising staff so offenders don't have privacy and things going unchecked. The remote phone contact is another desperate step to manage to many cases and too few staff. There is hardly a manager to be seen half the time as they are covering such a huge area. Soon staff will be taken away to the hub to remote manage the so called low risk cases. Who will supervise these pso's?.At the moment po's are expected to support pso's and discuss case issues/ concerns which is a risk management task. If they don't have this that could raise the risk. I blatantly disagree with this telephone only contact for reasons already stated on this blog. I told a WL manager this ages ago as well as my own managers. WL are putting profit over the safety of the public and wellbeing/ moral compass of their staff. How they are getting away with this I cannot quite comprehend. We have insufficient management team and a demoralised workforce who are seldom listened to despite all their experience and professional qualifications. WL corporate staff deciding how 1000's of cases should be managed yet they have now concept of working with the complexity of offenders who are so often perpetrators as well has having been the victims of crime themselves as children or adults.Don't get me wrong, there ia a place for phone contact when supervising someone but as an add on and not the entire thing. I am a PO working mainly with DV cases that makw up bulk of a PO's caseload in bgsw crc. They are all medium risk and bragged amber or red so none of them will be remotely managed. However if you look at their pre cons earlier on you can see that some may have been deemed low risk a few years ago before their partners had courage to report their DV! So it is likely there will be low risk cases ( so calked) who will committ violent offences whilst they are being managed over the phone. Maybe someone would have picked up on this if meeting face to face. Anyway as far as I am concerned this is a bad move and MOJ should have stepped in and stopped it.

  6. I work in Interserve, problem is many are being sent from court with RAR days who dont need them as dont many of the post-sentence supervision cases. This means i cant really refer people as they've no issues as such. Therefore i'm doing a lot of one to one and seeing people very infrequently. I am not wrong in doing this and if it means i manage my caseload of 80 (way over target) then so be it. Managers are happy so as long as people arent re-offending then I dont see what the problem is.

    1. Looks like minimum wage for you then

    2. There are HUGE problems as 17.39 has pointed out. Telephone contact at OM's discretion on a case by case basis is one thing, but as a one size fits all... Completely bonkers. I work in court and use fines, including Band D & E, conditional discharges, curfews, SSOs without requirements etc wherever possible. Those given RARs are often low risk, but have multiple issues linked to their offending. They need the support and direction face to face. The professional relationship between OM and individual is key and used to be as fashionable, believe it or not, as the pompous phrase "driving innovation" or whatever the latest crap is. A low risk offender can kill in the blink of an eye if certain 'toxic' circumstances combine. Telephone contact as a supervision method in itself is a complete joke. These CRCs are taking the piss and the Govt letting them. "innovation" will always mean cheaper, less useful, pointless.

    3. I was talking to a Court PSO who said about RaR's....'oh, I just make up [how many are suitable] days.


  7. 19:32 ?? I too work for Interswerve ( yes I meant to spell it that way ) - as previously highlighted on this blog RAR days and post sentence assements ( courtesy of al la said management folk fromm West Yorkshire ) is not an effective risk management tool of offenders and courts seem to have little or no understanding of the effectiveness of them ( neither so I )- it's my understanding ( and that directed by GGM CRC ) that you do not complete RAR days with PSS cases - these were also the cases that unless they had 5 mths + licence prior to PSS they could not be put onto a programme ( I think they were expecting far too many numbers for this to be accomodated ).
    In terms of offenders not having issues as such is not the case where I work more the case that we don't have the community based resources we require ( most of these have been drastically reduced by the same Gov had continue to obliterate the criminal justice system - not to mention the NHS , police , prisons and education) hence why the majority of us are carrying out 1-1 sessions.
    I would question your management's response to you seeing people infrequently should any of those offenders go into committ an SFO !!!

  8. Radio4's PM prog had a set of interviews last week relating to a well educated, well loved young woman whose use of heroin was problematic for herself & those around her. Her own words (Thurs & Fri progs) were particularly interesting. When she described her court appearance for related offending she spoke very briefly about probation's intervention, which was to the effect that (not verbatim) "Probation asked me what I needed in terms of rehabilitation and I told them before my use of heroin I didn't commit any offences, I just needed a programme to help me stop using heroin because that was the only reason I was here." If I remember correctly she ended up with a curfew & DRR. That sounds like smart sentencing to me. No unnecessary or pointless over-bearing interference with programmes or supervision. Okay, it seems that prescribing issues with the DRR provider led to the initial contact with R4, but generally speaking it appears an appropriate sentence was imposed. I'm assuming that (1) court probation listened to & assessed the woman's case whilst (2) sentencers had confidence in the suggested sentence.

  9. N'bria (Sodexo) already have the tel. contact with the so called 'green' cases, managed from the head office by 4 PSO's. telephone crib sheet to prompt the conversation. They never meet them so no real working r/ship can ever be formed. Expectation they do some work with the PSO's in the team first (who also do the ISP and don't get any work load recognition for it. Each caseload is about 160+. Waiting for the SFO's to happen.

  10. I am not against telephone contact as such. Low risk of serious harm means there have been no risk factors identified that would indicate a risk of serious harm. If risk of reoffending is low and / or the sentence plan completed then no issue with telephone contact to my mind. But then that is not a new idea. We did that when we were a Probation Trust. My complaint is about lack of sufficiently well trained and experienced SPO / PO / PSO to manage public protection and reduce reoffending. I don't believe this is the case, inspection report after inspection report suggests the same. The models are flawed on that basis.

    1. You have cases being assessed as low case on inadequate reports by NPS (not slating NPS but they just don't have the time to assess as we used to, so much info missing) I don't have an issue with putting cases into telephone contact after a certain point in sentence but not at the start of sentence.

  11. Eventually, if it's not already occurred, someone will commit an SFO while phone reporting to their supervisor. Such are the hazards of mobile communication technology compared to fixed landlines. It would make for an interesting retrospective Delius entry as well as an interesting criminal alibi - "I was reporting to probation at the time of the crime m'lud".

    1. Like a death by dangerous driving, perhaps?

  12. Oh boy, I love this internet timetravel stuff. Here goes 1992, from Hansard:

    Probation Officers

    HC Deb 22 June 1992 vol 210 c8W8W
    §Mr. Cox To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will list the prisons in England and Wales that do not have a full-time probation officer working within the prison.
    §Mr. Jack Only one. Her Majesty's prison Haslar has a part-time main grade probation officer working one and a half days per week.

    1. Even better; once upon a time, back when even MPs' had respect for the work of the Probation Service (1991):

      John Patten on the debate surrounding CJAct'91: "We want the probation service to change its present role. We want it to develop its considerable skills in confronting offending behaviour and making offenders face up to what they have done, so that they do not do it again. That means exercising control as well as care--caring authority, as it were. Vigorous, forward-looking bodies such as the Association of Chief Officers of Probation, and that valuable organisation, the National Association of Senior Probation Officers, are already gearing themselves up to the task."

  13. As much as all this going back in time resonates , what can " we " do now to instigate change ?? - it is so apparent that the majority of people that put comments on this blog are so unhappy with the current climate and their roles within the criminal justice system ( eithe within NPS or CRC )- it also appears that the people that are standing up and being counted are the mothers and families of those that have lost loved ones due to being made victims of crimes by offenders we supervise - I'm not sure as front line staff what our options are outside of our Unions in terms of letting the powers that be know what a shambles the current justice system is interms of NPS,CRC and prisons and how as practitioners we are struggling to effectively manage offenders within the current so called transforming rehabilitation !!!??

    1. A fair point, but I guess most of the unhappy practitioners are terrified of losing the jobs they hate, and most of the ex-practitioners are scared of losing the severance they took when they signed a confidentiality agreement never to speak about anything again, ever - the consequences for either being loss of income, home, etc.

      The brave & determined mothers who are challenging this venal pack of incompetent politicos & standing up for justice might feel they've already lost so much, i.e. their children, that what else can possibly be so bad?