We have a very serious situation:-
Trainee probation officer stabbed yesterday. Circumstances being kept tight lipped. Questions raised as to why changes since Preston haven’t been implemented, being blamed on funding and all offices requesting it. Not good enough. I don’t want to work for this service anymore, we are not valued.******
Almost 6 months after the last one. Still no security or scanners in the office. Yet Martin Davis assures us staff security is at a premium. yeah right sure it is.
Almost 6 months after the last one. Still no security or scanners in the office. Yet Martin Davis assures us staff security is at a premium. yeah right sure it is.
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If things are being missed when certain behaviours mean alarm bells would be ringing loudly... then where the hell is the management leadership and oversight, and when is it going to be properly held to account rather than case managers being blamed totally and punished in isolation under the SFO procedure, leaving managers in the clear.
If things are being missed when certain behaviours mean alarm bells would be ringing loudly... then where the hell is the management leadership and oversight, and when is it going to be properly held to account rather than case managers being blamed totally and punished in isolation under the SFO procedure, leaving managers in the clear.
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Good on Mr Gilmore. Win, lose or draw, he should be able to clarify a situation which exists in this country too. I had issues previously about a pre-sentence report where there was a great disparity between what the quality control audit people felt and what the sentencing judge thought. I asked the question, who are we writing the report for, the probation service or the sentencer? There was much huffing and puffing and a bit of threatening before it all went away unanswered. I know from speaking to colleagues that I was not on my own.
Good on Mr Gilmore. Win, lose or draw, he should be able to clarify a situation which exists in this country too. I had issues previously about a pre-sentence report where there was a great disparity between what the quality control audit people felt and what the sentencing judge thought. I asked the question, who are we writing the report for, the probation service or the sentencer? There was much huffing and puffing and a bit of threatening before it all went away unanswered. I know from speaking to colleagues that I was not on my own.
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I can recall being in a parole hearing when the case manager was asked to express their opinion on how manageable was risk. The initial response was, ‘my manager says…..’ the panel quite rightly pressed the matter in line with Parole Board rules and we’re then told, ‘the area manger thinks,……’ Upon being asked a third time, they were told, ’the MAPPA committee has decided……’ This is what they have created. Supposed professionals who either don’t have, or who aren’t allowed to express an opinion.
I can recall being in a parole hearing when the case manager was asked to express their opinion on how manageable was risk. The initial response was, ‘my manager says…..’ the panel quite rightly pressed the matter in line with Parole Board rules and we’re then told, ‘the area manger thinks,……’ Upon being asked a third time, they were told, ’the MAPPA committee has decided……’ This is what they have created. Supposed professionals who either don’t have, or who aren’t allowed to express an opinion.
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There's one seriously important & invaluable observation from Acheson, one that NOMS/MoJ/HMPPS has never understood and will never understand, as they have no concept of managing that tightrope:
Again, to quote Acheson:
Two stabbing in the space of five months and no actual physical changes in offices to safeguard staff. Lockers to be installed but what about weapons concealed against the person? Workloads through the roof, a culture of bullying from senior management, and a pay deal that isn’t likely to materialise this financial year leaving staff struggling against the cost of living rises. What a sh*t place to work.
There's one seriously important & invaluable observation from Acheson, one that NOMS/MoJ/HMPPS has never understood and will never understand, as they have no concept of managing that tightrope:
"I can still remember when these organisations were different but complementary entities. As the Governor of a prison with a lifer unit, I was inclined to keep most of the risk inside the walls and my colleague, the seconded senior probation officer, had the opposite perspective. That creative tension meant good risk-based decisions happened."This puts me in mind of the similar *necessary* tensions that existed between Pre-Sentence Report authors & sentencers, carefully crafting argument & counter-argument, balancing all facts & considerations in a bid to realise the most appropriate & effective outcome. A balance that was shattered - & shat all over - when 'the centre' decided that concordance rates (probation proposals were in alignment with sentence outcomes) were a key performance indicator. Proof positive they had no concept of what constituted meaningful risk assessment.
Again, to quote Acheson:
"It was certainly no worse than the algorithmic, push button approach that dominates today."*******
Two stabbing in the space of five months and no actual physical changes in offices to safeguard staff. Lockers to be installed but what about weapons concealed against the person? Workloads through the roof, a culture of bullying from senior management, and a pay deal that isn’t likely to materialise this financial year leaving staff struggling against the cost of living rises. What a sh*t place to work.
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Unfortunately since the Damien Bendall murders in 2021 HMPPS have forced Probation to over risk, cover backs and have trained new staff (and bullied/threatened experienced staff) to see offenders as the 'enemy' and to breach and recall for any slight issue. New staff haven't been encouraged to build rapport or develop relationships but to hit targets and write Oasys. This has made offenders see us as basically police or community prison officers who aren't there to help and support but to hinder, control and punish. I'm generalising but it's how I see the situation and I don't think it's possible to turn the tanker around...
Unfortunately since the Damien Bendall murders in 2021 HMPPS have forced Probation to over risk, cover backs and have trained new staff (and bullied/threatened experienced staff) to see offenders as the 'enemy' and to breach and recall for any slight issue. New staff haven't been encouraged to build rapport or develop relationships but to hit targets and write Oasys. This has made offenders see us as basically police or community prison officers who aren't there to help and support but to hinder, control and punish. I'm generalising but it's how I see the situation and I don't think it's possible to turn the tanker around...
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Very sad and shocked to read the extraordinary staff briefing yesterday afternoon. A trainee PO stabbed in Oxfordshire Probation office. Thankfully not critical but the trauma for them and colleagues must be enormous. What is being done to protect us as this is becoming a very real threat now with the proliferation of knives.
Very sad and shocked to read the extraordinary staff briefing yesterday afternoon. A trainee PO stabbed in Oxfordshire Probation office. Thankfully not critical but the trauma for them and colleagues must be enormous. What is being done to protect us as this is becoming a very real threat now with the proliferation of knives.
********
Recall, breach, recall, breach, exterminate, exterminate, PQIQ Daleks
--oo00oo--
Lets just cut to the chase here. 'Probation is now seen as the enemy' fed into Google AI delivers this:-
Shift in focus: The original purpose of probation was to "advise, assist and befriend" offenders, but this has been increasingly overshadowed by a focus on risk management and punishment.
Increased bureaucracy: A "tick-box" culture and heavy procedures dominate the service, sometimes undermining the judgment of individual officers and causing offenders to feel that progress is being hindered.
Punitive measures: The system has become more risk-averse, making breaches of community orders and licences, which can lead to re-sentencing or prison, a default position for probation staff.
Perceived as adversarial: The more punitive and bureaucratic nature of modern probation means offenders can see their probation officers not as helpers, but as adversaries or the "enemy" who are trying to catch them out.
Cultural and structural changes: The service's integration with the prison service and its placement within the civil service have been criticized as culturally inappropriate, further contributing to this perception of a more adversarial system.
Punitive measures: The system has become more risk-averse, making breaches of community orders and licences, which can lead to re-sentencing or prison, a default position for probation staff.
Perceived as adversarial: The more punitive and bureaucratic nature of modern probation means offenders can see their probation officers not as helpers, but as adversaries or the "enemy" who are trying to catch them out.
Cultural and structural changes: The service's integration with the prison service and its placement within the civil service have been criticized as culturally inappropriate, further contributing to this perception of a more adversarial system.
--oo00oo--
England once had a gold-standard and world-leading Probation Service that was informed by a Social Work ethos and staffed with highly skilled and well-motivated professionals able to exercise skill and judgement to 'advise, assist and befriend' in furtherance of both rehabilitation and public protection. Management, at the behest of politicians, have destroyed that over recent years and brought us to the point of utter chaos, rammed prisons, totally demoralised workforce and England having become an outlier as far as enlightened world-wide practice is concerned. This cannot go on as Acheson indicates:-
"But there’s no time and no appetite for any more change in this much abused and misunderstood service. The Government has made its choice on sentencing, and that is to load even more risk onto an agency that can’t guarantee public protection and rehabilitation with existing workloads."
The Government must bite the bullet - Probation as part of HMPPS is totally unfit for purpose and must be reformed and recast or things will get even worse.
Our office is not fit for purpose health and safety wise. Anyone could easily walk in with a knife and get into areas where it would be easy to hold staff ir other service users hostage. Door systems don't lock properly etc. It makes me so angry that the courts have security and scanners/metal detectors yet we work with the same people and don't. We are being given treated like second class citizens. It's appalling that no one learned from the first incident and know it's happened again. There will be more incidents like this unless urgent action is taken to improve safety for staff. It's not a safe environment and we are basically sitting ducks and just have to hope we or our colleagues are not next. I do hope the member of staff is going to be OK but experience tells me this is life long trauma.
ReplyDeleteSecond class citizens……? I don’t think we are that high on the list!
DeleteIn all my 20 years in probation I've not heard of serious incidents from people on probation to staff....in the past 6 months I've heard of 2. There are posts above about how the recall, tick box, authoritarian, breach first and so called risk management culture leads to resentment, combative practice and poor decisions. We have poorly trained staff led by power hungry monsters. It's not scanners and bag searches we need...its properly trained staff and an overhaul of our entire approach and culture. This organisation is sick and unhealthy for both the people working for and using thr service. I've literally had my motivation and vivacity sucked out of me by this organisation. Of course I hsve compassion for the employees involved and such incidents are horrific. But as a good probation officer I want to fully understand what has led two people to making such horrific choices in the past 6 months. Sadly I have no faith that this organisation has the ability to self reflect on its own potential contribution to such terrible acts and behaviour.
DeleteAgree with above. We are being treated with contempt. I have no direct evidence however could these incidents within offices be linked to various early release schemes whereby limited planning or risk assessment has been completed. I also ask myself why there is no pay offer on the table? Normally by now something has been put forward. We are being treated like mugs. We need to take action on both fronts
ReplyDeleteThis is the moment that the new CEO James Mcewen who is now the highest ranking person in HMPPS decides he is either for Probation staff or not. He spoke a good game on his first all staff call a few weeks ago although plenty of waffle and painting far to rosey a picture. But if he won't sort out our pay, conditions and culture then he might as well just be honest and tell us to pipe down and to either put up or piss off. No point expecting Napo or the supposed Head of Probation to do sweet fa for us...
ReplyDeletehttps://www.civilserviceworld.com/news/article/probation-service-being-set-up-to-fail-with-tagging-expansion-committee-says
DeleteBut not a peep in any govt or civil service linked pages (as far as I can see) about recent assaults on staff.
If it ain't in the Torygraph, it didn't happen.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq602vr3z3mo
ReplyDeleteA man has been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder after another man was found with serious injuries in Oxford.
Thames Valley Police said the victim, a man in his 20s, remained in hospital following the attack inside a building at St Aldates Courtyard on Wednesday just after 13:00 GMT.
The force said the 27-year-old man from the city who was held remained in custody. It added there was no indication of any ongoing risk to the public, and officers were not looking for anyone else in connection with the attack.
Witnesses, anyone with information and those with CCTV or mobile phone footage are being urged to get in contact with police.
A man has been charged with attempted murder after another man was found with serious injuries in Oxford.
DeleteNelson Williams, 27, has also been charged with affray and possession of a knife in a public place in connection with the incident inside a building at St Aldates Courtyard on Wednesday.
Thames Valley Police said the victim was a man in his 20s who suffered serious injuries and remains in hospital.
Mr Williams, 27, of Leopold Street, Oxford, has been remanded in custody and was due to appear at High Wycombe Magistrates' Court.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqjgzp0ydeko
ReplyDeleteA prison has been criticised for "sustained overcrowding" and "unacceptably high" levels of violence.
HMP Bullingdon, near Bicester in Oxfordshire, was also told by the Independent Monitoring Board that inexperienced staff and a shortage of officers were key concerns.
Board chair Jennifer Pilkington said the government should "prioritise initiatives that will overcome this fundamental problem".
The Ministry of Justice said the prison's staffing levels had improved in the past year but additional training and support was being provided to staff.
We have been advised today that there has been a “ knife incident “ at our main Manchester Probation. No further details other than the officer “ dealt with it brilliantly “.
ReplyDeleteWell there’s a promotion coming up then for that officer. Don’t say anything, we got your back.
DeleteApologies I should’ve stated the incident apparently occurred yesterday.
ReplyDeleteMessage NAPO DO THE JOB YOUR PAID FOR. 1 represent your members 2 protect their terms and conditions 3 ensure their minimum working and legal rights are provided. 4 maintain health and safety standards in all workplace environments . It ain't rocket science it's in the fu@%ing constitution . Get yourselves some legal advice and take some @@%ing action you incompetent blowhard staff need reassurance there needs to be a demand list and staff protections prioritised from unacceptable UNACEPTABLE RISKS Napo drive me to rage doing zero when they could come forward and make a difference . Get down a butchers shop see if they have any back bone left. Spinless leader.
ReplyDeleteHaha butchers shop haha. That made me chuckle.
DeleteGave up my NAPO membership last month after 33 years, they didn’t even try to convince me to stay, knew I’d made the right decision
DeleteI note an article in the Sun ( not a paper I would normally reference ) talks about the Oxford incident. They have a quote from HMPPS stating how they won’t tolerate their hardworking staff being assaulted. However nothing about how little has been done since the Preston incident to keep offices and staff safe.
ReplyDeleteAnd it quotes they'll push for the strongest punishment, so without wanting to make light of the situation does that mean sentenced to 2 years as a Pquip listening to online training videos, followed by a life sentence of poor pay, bullying target enforcers (SPO's) and no respect...
DeleteStabbed with a knife is not assault is it. Playing it down don't help protect anyone and Napo silent stuffed pig squealing quietly do your job raise this dilemma take action protect our staff. When someone ends up dead what you going to do or say. More plaudits Lawrence robbing off we told you so but takes no action now. This turn of offender attitudes has changed your interaction to that of defensive self preservation. The old days of forging relations shifting attitude by counselling has long past. It's a combative arena from down trodden clients who don't see us as we once were. Therefore it does absolutely follow safety first then relationship building to work on reform . If we are not safe nothing will work. Yet the silence from the bobo fat clown at Napo silently fearful because he's a coward to make any stand with members is disgusting arrogance. There needs to be a an urgent national meeting to illustrate the seriousness on our conditions and a staffing fear risk registration survey for action. Every HS officer in each building must have an up to date risk assesment with management recorded now with a sign off or a fix list completion date . Supervision room safety zones escape routes and alarms need rewriting. Are Napo this dim they could not alert members to be doing this and they will assist in coordination of a national assesment. Are Napo this thick really. Come on people this is an outrage number 2 yet complacency rules . Staggeringly annoyed here. Sorry readers editor.
DeleteAnon 17:35 "The old days of forging relations shifting attitude by counselling has long past." You could not be more wrong.
Deletehttps://www.napo.org.uk/news/probation-pay-update-28112025
DeleteProbation pay update 28/11/2025
DeleteWe have previously advised our members in the Probation Service, that it’s now nearly 12 months since the joint probation unions submitted our pay claim for 2025 and eight months since the 2025 pay rise was due on 1 April. As we approach the start of December, there is still no news from HMPPS as to when we will see a pay offer.
It goes without saying that this delay is completely unacceptable and the inertia from the employer and government is a disgrace. While we are well aware that in the normal course of events the civil service is much slower than other public sector employers when it comes to making pay offers, the unions have not been able to get any answers as to why it is taking HMPPS so long to get approval from the Treasury to make a pay offer for this year. We know that HMPPS is making a special case for a pay offer above the government’s normal limit for 2025, but we were told this back in the summer. So why the ongoing delay?
Napo, UNISON and GMB met with the new Lord Chancellor David Lammy on 17th November and strongly pressed him on when our members could expect a pay offer. David Lammy continually stressed that he was doing everything he could to speed up the process and hoped to be able to see an offer appear before Christmas.
Napo ready to ballot members
Depending on the scope of the offer when it arrives, and the determination by Napo’s Probation Negotiating Committee, Napo is obviously committed to ensuring that our members have their say via a ballot. Obviously, the onset of the Christmas holiday presents logistical challenges in this regard, and we have factored this into our planning. The primary objective is to secure maximum turnout from our membership to provide us with a mandate for our next steps, so we will need to give careful consideration as to the timetable to enable a ballot to take place which meets our members best interests.
Napo national link officers and officials will be arranging meetings with your branch committees in the coming weeks to explain the next elements in the pay and workloads campaign as well as the latest updates on Health and Safety (see below) and explore any support that is needed in terms of member engagement.
We will be bringing you more news just as soon as we can.
napo can be defined thus: "We will be bringing you more news just as soon as we can but Napo is obviously committed to ensuring that our members have their say via a ballot."
Deletemeanwhile lammy continues to take the piss by "doing everything he can to speed up the process and hoped to be able to see an offer appear before Christmas."
WAKEY! WAKEY!
So who gives a fuck about probation staff?
1. hmpps - no
2. CPO (whoever she is) - no
3. your regional leaders - no
4. your local leaders - no
5. the courts - no
6. those sent to be supervised by - no
7. probation unions - no.
Altogether now:
"eff, you, see, kay, dee" to the tune of a popular d.i.s.c.o choon.
Jim while I am a keen advocate to save practice support before sign post provide before describe and deliver instead of promises I can assure you in my office the days of meaningful engagement are well and truly buried by oasis. Psychometrics turgid crap what have you. If you really think some office time for an hour plus is still going on with a cup of tea some gently inquisitive probing and some carrot reward in enthusiasm is going on your deluded. It is hard work managing case entries based on volume not quality. Anyone doing old school won't have a real caseloads target hungry records process. My own cluster is flat out. We are risk fearful so blame and just get through the days with a touch of comedy. Wherever your examples exist good luck to them .
Delete“Still no news from HMPPS”
DeleteHow is that even an acceptable response? Only a union with zero leverage would tolerate it. How are we supposed to have any respect for leadership when they clearly have none for us? Unions, senior managers, HMPPS, ministers, let’s not pretend we’re all in this together. There’s them, comfortably paid and insulated, and there’s us, doing the work and left waiting for scraps.
Who actually is the decision maker here? Who is holding the purse strings? Who or what are they influenced by if the minister can only hope! “David Lammy continually stressed that he was doing everything he could to speed up the process and hoped to be able to see an offer appear before Christmas”. Well what is ‘everything’ he is doing as I’d like to know. I’ve never been so frustrated with the time is takes for many things to happen and decisions to be made since joining the PS as part of the civil service 6 years ago, compared to my Trust and even CRC experience. If lucky, in my role - and at best - I am given a couple of weeks as a deadline for some tasks, and at worse, a couple of days or COP please! I can imagine that after the 4 months plus of pending the actions to come out of the Preston investigation, I will be given a week to implement all the planned changes locally once announced! Pay rise please, we deserve it.
DeleteFor all those complaining about napo - I suggest you read your emails
ReplyDelete"more news about our engagement with senior management will follow as soon as possible."
Delete"The serious incident in Oxfordshire this week following the assault on a staff member in Preston during the summer has caused many members to get in touch with Napo HQ directly. While your contact is appreciated, it’s important that in the first instance you should seek to contact your Napo Branch with your views or concerns"
"we await sight of a National Action plan from senior management that we hope will reassure staff that their employer takes your safety seriously."
Not sure any of those missives from napo offers reassurance to anyone.
Its always so inbearably passive... except for the furious empty rhetoric that carries no weight whatsoever:
Delete- completely unacceptable
- strongly pressed
- pressing senior management
- continue to campaign at the highest levels
- responsibility for ensuring the safety of their workforce lies with the employer
- Napo has demanded
All to no avail, whether its pay, H&S, workloads - or anything.
£120k a year for the GS... More than an MP's salary.
*** unbearably *** (apologies)
DeleteComplaint about Napo look at their drivel nothing about we are taking legal advice to combat the failure of the employers duties. Nowt in forcing a proper negotiated framework no staff instruction s not to do tasks without current update on office safety checking recording. Napo useless hot air fools lap puppy to management they deliver nothing for members . Staggering pay more than an MP for nothing good luck if you can get that.
Deletehttps://www.napo.org.uk/news/health-and-safety-could-you-be-local-representative
DeleteWhere’s the pay increase? They keep telling it’s submitted, but nobody knows when or what.
DeleteThis misery from probation unions, leaders and HMPPS, it’s not acceptable.
What a headline!
ReplyDeleteHEINOUS ATTACK Probation officer stabbed by offender they were supervising – as man in his 20s charged with attempted murder
Published: 28 Nov 2025
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37467778/probation-officer-stabs-offender/
Offer you 2% before Xmas and all the robots will accept and take it out on the men they supervise , the 30 something criminology graduates who look under people’s beds
ReplyDeleteYes while the editor thinks we are doing old school value based work.
DeletePrisons full because of punitive probation practice and culture it’s not worth a carrot
ReplyDeleteWhatever pay rise is offered, accepted or rejected by the time it's paid we'll be due our next shitty pay rise in April 2026, how on earth is that going to be negotiated on time!? We might as well push for a 2 year agreement at this rate just to save this farce from repeating itself. At least we could all then concentrate on removing the incumbent Napo leadership in time for 2027's deal.
ReplyDeleteDon't agree on the 2 year deal stuff because the cycle in our terms is ignored by Napo lead. I do agree he needs to gone by some process and we recharge a proper commited capable leader new intelligence to help probation in crisis no question.
DeleteAnd let’s not forget the Band 3s in programmes now dealing with *only* high riskers- 10 in one room quite possibly all carrying knifes. Zero training on how to respond if one pulls out a weapon. And they wonder why no one stays in programmes on less money than Aldi pays ….
ReplyDeleteApparently everything will be fine because they’ll all put their bags in lockers. But if someone still pulls a machete from their trousers, the only realistic training needed is learning how to run.
DeleteNow I'm not sure can this be true because I just read the editor claims
Delete"Anon 17:35 "The old days of forging relations shifting attitude by counselling has long past." You could not be more wrong."
What planet am I on .
As an SPO, even before Preston, H&S was at the top of my list in our office and was a huge concern . I am mortified at the response by those who have the powers to make significant changes and how little credence they are giving these incidents . I have repeatedly asked my staff whether there is anything I can do to make them feel safer but realistically there very little that I can realistically do. I am thankful that locally the powers that be are taking this seriously and do have time for staff and listen to their concerns but without one of the senior leaders actually going to see what we are facing I hold little hope that anything will change anytime soon. The local toy shop has more security than my staff do - it's appalling
ReplyDeleteI don’t see the point in “repeatedly asking my staff if there’s anything I can do to make them feel safer” when you already know “realistically there’s very little I can do.” Why not start with the truth? If there’s nothing you can meaningfully change, then stop fooling yourself and stop fooling them.
DeleteNo amount of “local listening” will make a difference when the “local message” is just a script handed down across the country: send an email, get staff together, have a chat, listen to concerns. It’s empty. It means nothing without action.
Instead of endorsing or repeating that script, take those concerns straight back to senior leaders and demand real changes on pay, conditions, safety, and security. As you have said, it’s not difficult to implement proper security like every other public-facing organisation, and it’s not acceptable to keep shifting responsibility back onto staff with panic alarms, “dealing with aggression” training and health and safety audits.
Unions, senior managers, HMPPS, ministers, they all need to stop pretending we’re in this together. There’s them, comfortably paid and insulated from risk, and there’s us, doing the work, facing the dangers, and left waiting for scraps of pathetic 2% pay rises.
Anon 00:23 you keep saying “my staff” a lot. It comes across more like ownership than leadership.
Delete