So, here we have Brandon Lewis, the new Justice Secretary, having a laugh and joke at Petty France yesterday:-
"I look forward to working with @trussliz and colleagues across Government on the many pressing issues we face. I will work tirelessly to protect the public from serious offenders, improve the safety of our prisons, reduce reoffending and deliver swift access to justice for all."
"Great to speak to staff @MoJGovUK this afternoon to set out my aims to cut crime and make the public safer, better support victims and boost the economy through the country's great legal services."
The Secret Barrister Tweeting in response:-
"A little surprised that your aims don’t include fixing the crisis in the criminal justice system. Or making it fairer for all - victims, witnesses and defendants. Or upholding the rule of law. Or defending judicial independence in the face of increasing executive interference…"
Note there has been no mention of probation at all.
It might be all smiles at MoJ HQ but he and 'strong white' Romero are presiding over an increasingly dysfunctional department. There's the failing Court IT system recently featured on BBC Radio 4 File on 4, the Barristers strike and massive probation service staffing problem.
I was recently taken to task for suggesting that the repeated adverts for staff being put on Twitter by Regional Heads signalled an air of desperation about them - 'it was only a natural consequence of the MoJ agreeing to fund more staff' sort of response. So, thanks go to the reader for forwarding the following which, in addition to sounding like things are indeed desperate, has that distinctly prison command and control air about it:-
Detached Duty Opportunity - For PSO Grade staff in Lancashire, Cumbria and Cheshire (Excluding Merseyside and those scheduled to begin PQiP in September)
In response to an urgent and critical staffing position in the London Probation Region, we are seeking further volunteers at PSO grade from the above area only (excluding those PSO's in the September PQiP intake) to be temporarily re-deployed on detached duty. Thankyou to the volunteers we've already had from Merseyside area.
The placement initially will be for 4 months and will be reviewed within that time. A non-consolidated but pensionable Detached Duty (DD) Scheme lump sum subject to tax deductions, will be paid to staff following completion of the agreed DD deployment as below
- 4 weeks continuous = £500
- 8 weeks continuous = £1,200
- 12 weeks continuous = £2,000
If you would like to register your interest please e-mail your completed application form to xxxxxxxxxx by 5pm on Wednesday 7th September 2022. Manager's and Heads should offer their views about whether they would be able to support the application and the final decisions relating to which staff we are able to release will be made at the Regional Board on Thursday 9th September 2022. Staff will be prepared to move quickly as the need is pressing.
Exactly the same advert/opportunity sent to all in NE region 2 weeks ago.
ReplyDelete4 months = maybe 50 nights? At £75/night = £3.750 + £2,000 non-consolidated payment + travel/subsistence = £7,000 per person? On top of existing salary?
ReplyDeleteHow many staff? Maybe 20 from across several regions?
Plus admin costs etc; this could be costing at least £250,000 to put a sticking plaster over a compound fracture.
And what about the manager-based scheme they operated? Not a lot was said about shipping managers down to London from t'north. How much did that cost?
But there ain't no money for a cost-of-living pay rise.
Nhs employee here. Our managers/the service think a pay rise should be conditional - they are basically saying you can get one if you upskill, ideally academically, which is a largely middle-class pursuit, especially as they're (the nhs) unlikely to fund it. If you upskill your income would normally increase anyway, so this is just a way for them to avoid talking about and doing anything to address the cost of living crisis - the implication is that if your struggling to make ends meet, its your fault for not going to university, not cost of living crisis.
DeleteThis policy robs Peter to pay Paul, and causes massive resentment towards any DD officers who join as they essentially have their accommodation paid for them and are paid more for the same job.
ReplyDeleteFrom Twitter:-
Delete"Yes! Working in a London red site the #detachedduty scheme only served to accelerate the departure of experienced staff as they were afforded none of the financial incentives that the detached staff were provided with."
From Twitter:-
ReplyDelete"Oh dear, I was only discussing this with colleagues yesterday. The small pockets of practice that remain properly staffed & relatively stable in the North may not stay this way for long if PSOs are being plucked out & sent down south on #probation #detachedduty schemes…"
Just to confirm that the same offer/plea has come out to approved premises managers in the North West. The email specifically referenced “probation officer staff” so not just PSOs.
ReplyDeleteFrom Twitter:-
ReplyDelete"Appreciate the frustrations but we are one organisation and when vacancies are as significantly skewed as it is against London and pockets of other regions, we can’t just let them drown. I’d prefer them to just up the wage of hard to recruit areas to attract staff permanently, but they are not allowed to do that to keep salary consistent across the country. So we end up with this crazy, temporary middle ground of detached duty that is just a sticking plaster."
From Twitter (Napo Chair):-
ReplyDelete"We do have mechanisms for additional pay in areas hard to recruit and retain staff in, the policies can be used to help resolve the problems. Market forces supplements (where competitor employers have higher starting salaries) and geographical supplements are part of our terms!"
From Twitter:-
Delete"Having worked in a London office office, I’d say it takes at least 3 months to know the multiple Burroughs you cover & the resources, different working practices etc so what often happens is you require additional support from existing staff thus defeating the purpose!
I can totally understand the sense of camaraderie & wanting to support struggling colleagues but these are long term staffing issues to be resolved at an organisational level through the policies Katie refers to/pay reviews/ retention policies not by sticking plasters! Yes they are there but seemingly never utilised!"
"It certainly does seem very rare. I’ve tried to use this for staff I’ve recruited previously (not PO/PSO roles mind) and it was a painful and ultimately unsuccessful to process to try and get an external recruit matched to their existing salary. Hopefully easier now."
From Twitter:-
Delete"Completely agree with you. It’s a fundamental problem that the existing pay structure/terms/policies just won’t resolve. The sooner this is recognised and acted on in HQ the better."
From Twitter:-
ReplyDelete"Presumably this money comes out of the huge underspend London would be carrying every year for not being able to recruit to workforce targets. The moneys already there for this; it isn’t for cost of living payments (as much as I’d wholeheartedly support it.)"
"A new report into HMP Berwyn in Wrexham also found its ability to rehabilitate prisoners is hampered by a "severe shortage" of officers and probation and health care staff. "
ReplyDeletehttps://www-liverpoolecho-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/violence-severe-staff-shortages-prison-24943753.amp?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16626281151888&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.liverpoolecho.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fliverpool-news%2Fviolence-severe-staff-shortages-prison-24943753
From Twitter:-
ReplyDelete"One of the CRS agencies probation sub contract to told me today they got a 6% payrise and £350 from their employers in July and same again next month to help with COL. they also get £600-£1000 in Dec as bonus!!! I may jump ship as would be no worse off."
I’m agency staff and a PO, there are only 2 approved for PS this DID NOT apply to either RSR or Service Care Solutions.
DeleteI think this refers to CRS (NSI delivery partners), not PS agency staff providers. For me, there is less security as a CRS provider staff member as providers and contracts can change. I’m not clear what their starting salaries were and additional benefits (pension, leave entitlement etc) to compare the overall package.
DeleteCRS: community rehabilitative services (commissioned outwith probation)
DeleteNSI: non-statutory intervention
A pre-coagulation report looked at commissioning:
https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmiprobation/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2018/04/Probation-Supply-Chains-Thematic-Report-1.pdf
From Twitter:-
ReplyDelete"Prison service has been trying to survive in this way for years!! We have establishments all over the country surviving this way with little being done to address the issues of why it has come to this. We only allow volunteers to participate!!"
From Twitter:-
ReplyDelete"Only a finite amount of people willing to work for current PS salaries in London (even on agency fees). And those that are decent can easily switch to less taxing roles for similar or higher wages in other sectors. There’s choice in London; why would you choose probation?"
"Presumably this money comes out of the huge underspend London would be carrying every year for not being able to recruit to workforce targets. The moneys already there for this; it isn’t for cost of living payments (as much as I’d wholeheartedly support it.)"
Money was not my motivation in probation but the drop in real value in comparison to living costs sharpens your attention. The bleak prospects of the truss agenda to protect private while cutting spending in public services illustrates there will be no new deal. The oil had companies are laughing mind so they will fund an anti labour campaign next year so the Tories resume their attacks in the working population. Austerity now poverty and soon no heating and a tax burden for the young. Who voted for these people . Glad Johnson has dropped off his mental orbit sorry to hear about the queen .
ReplyDeleteWhen I joined in the mid 80s Napo had just secured a good pay deal with employers. We had 33 days leave and no staffing problems as we were paid slightly more than are social worker chums and the employers knew we had options as we had a CQSW that open all sorts of doors. People generally stayed because they loved the job and the camaraderie that seems to have been snuffed out. I looked forward to working with the clients who knew we were there to help not hurt. Advise, assist and befriend. Roll forward to 2022 Massive staff shortages, questionable training standards and an organisation unable to retain staff for love or money. Stressed staff, exhausted and demoralised. Enforce, Control and Processes
ReplyDeleteFrom Napo today:-
ReplyDeleteDeath of Queen Elizabeth and impact on Napo activities and Trade Union Congress 2022
Following news of the death of Queen Elizabeth yesterday, we understand that HMPPS have asked their respective leads in Prisons and Probation to cancel all planned joint engagement with Trade Unions today and possibly over the next fortnight although we are awaiting confirmation of this.
It’s probable that Probation Northern Ireland and Cafcass will be asked to follow suit, but we believe that Napo should be seen to respect this day of reflection which, notwithstanding the individual views of our members about the Monarchy system, ought to be a tribute to the undoubted public service offered by the late Queen to citizens of the UK over seven decades.
Unless there are critical meetings concerning the wellbeing of staff or urgent representations which need to take place, Napo is asking that all planned engagement with management together with any Napo specific events such as pay briefings be cancelled pending further news from Napo HQ as soon as it becomes available.
TUC to reschedule 2020 Congress
The General Secretary has just returned from an emergency meeting of the TUC General Council where a major debate took place about whether to continue with the arrangements for next week’s Congress. On balance the General Council decided to reschedule at the earliest opportunity in October.
As members can imagine this was a difficult decision, but one which was certainly not based on assumed support by union members for the Monarchy, but the need to respect the public mood about the singular contribution made by the late Queen to public life over 70 years . Other considerations included the fact that the Government would seek to focus attention away from the Cost of Living Crisis by criticising the TUC for continuing with the event during an official period of mourning.
It was also clear that had Congress gone ahead there was going to be no mainstream media coverage for what is a major opportunity for the movement to showcase its vitally important work in the areas of anti-racism, industrial struggles and equality and social justice.
Ian Lawrence Katie Lomas
General Secretary National Chair
The TUC - https://www.cpbml.org.uk/news/tuc-drifting-away-working-class
DeleteThe British establishment want you to understand that the time and place for protest is when no one will see it and it won't make anyone in power remotely uncomfortable, and tuc are happy to go along with it.
DeleteNapo chair - market forces. Only NPS got market forces extra payment. CRC staff in the locality received no additional payment. When re-unified crc legacy offices were not paid market forces despite running understaffed. Napo not interested.
DeletePCS HMCTS strike action 10-18 September postponed
ReplyDeleteIn the light of the death of Queen Elizabeth II, PCS has postponed industrial action in courts planned between 10 and 18 September.
We received a number of representations to postpone the strike action that was due to start tomorrow (10 September). Our national disputes committee has therefore agreed to suspend the planned strike action between 10 and 18 September.
This means our court associates and legal advisers in the affected courts will not be called to take strike action during this period.
PCS is still very much in dispute with HMCTS. We will provide our members information about rescheduled strike days at an appropriate time. It should be noted that we meet with HMCTS over the dispute on 15 September, we will report back to members on this meeting.
Email today:-
ReplyDeleteNapo Business in the lead up to the late Queens Funeral
Now that arrangements for the state funeral have been clarified and the 19th September has been designated as a Bank Holiday it is appropriate for all Napo meetings and engagement events to go ahead this week apart from anything due on the 19 September.
Based on the guidance that has been sent out by HMPPS we are asking that branches should avoid any public messaging until 20 September apart from reminders for events (so no commentary). This does not stop Branches communicating with members or social media posts reminding members of meetings. This is to bring us in line with the Employer guidance and to protect members and the union from undue criticism while allowing those members who do want to observe the mourning period to do so.
Ian Lawrence Katie Lomas
General Secretary National Chair
Thought you'd 'gone dark' & in mourning...
DeleteI'm certainly reflecting on these profound political, social and constitutional changes and as a keen historian, this is absolutely fascinating on so many levels. I'm still pondering on what, if anything, I want to say about it all. To be honest, for right or wrong, much of political life is on hold pending the State Funeral, and there hasn't been one of those in the UK since 1965.
DeleteI've decided to say nothing and am not publishing anything on the subject either - it can all be said another day and at another time. I sense many of us just want a break and some of us might just want to have a think and reflect on things. So yes, it's 'going dark' for a bit. Make of it what you will.
Deleteyour blog; your rules; fair shout; see you on the other side.
Deletehttps://www.cypnow.co.uk/news/article/youth-custody-service-chief-to-step-down
DeleteHelga Swidenbank is set to leave the Youth Custody Service (YCS), where she has been its executive director for the last four years.
DeletePrior to joining the service in September 2018 she spent three years as director of probation at London Community Rehabilitation Company, part of a national network of offender management companies working with the National Probation Service.
John Drew, former Youth Justice Board (YJB) and senior associate at the Prison Reform Trust, said her time at the service had involved several challenges, including tackling low morale of staff, failures at secure training centres and supporting children amid the Covid pandemic.
“She has led the YCS with charm and fortitude, but it has been a very tough three years,” he said.
“The YCS struggles at times to look after the children in their care decently. Covid has not helped but the problems run much deeper.
“There have been galloping failures in each of the secure training centres (STCs). There appears to be a huge workforce crisis born of high turnover and low morale.”
Meanwhile, YJB chair Keith Fraser said that Swidenbank had “strived to deliver the best possible services for children in the secure estate” despite “the acute operational challenges”.
“We hope her successor will bring the same integrity and passion to the role and work closely with us to realise Helga’s vision of moving the YCS from a custodial service for children to a true children’s service,” he added.
Among challenges during her tenure at the YCS has been Oakhill Secure Training Centre receiving an urgent notification of improvement last year due to “unlawful” levels of force being used by staff on children. Inspectors also rated its support as “inadequate” and said it “barely met minimum standards of human decency”.
While inspectors this year welcomed improvements at Oakhill they also warned “it is too soon” to measure their impact.
In addition, Rainsbrook STC closed last year following damning inspection reports criticising failures to protect children and staff. MTC, the private firm responsible for running the site had its contract terminated in December 2021.
The UK’s first secure school is set to be opened, on the site of the former Medway STC, with the aim of improving support for young offenders in custody.
However, the project has been beset with delays. It was due to first open in autumn 2020 but it is now expected to launch in February 2024.
The House of Commons public accounts committee criticised the delays, as well as “spiralling costs” in launching the school, from an initial estimate of £4.9m to £40m.
“The main beacon of hope lies with the much-postponed opening of a first Secure School, consistently championed by Helga but this is still 15 months away,” added Drew.
Helga is a past master at leaving jobs before the proverbial hits the fan. What is about to implode at Youth Justice? She did of course have a very strong connection to Rainsbrook STC as a former prison governor who brought in a large number of other prison governor friends including a disgraced inspector (conflict of interest) and mate of Grayling who caused havoc whilst part of MTCs senior leadership team. You’d have thought with the high density of persons with prison management experience in MTC and running Rainsbrook and dominating LCRC with prison management ideas it should have been a breeze. Alas not. Helga was often said to be at meetings there. The problems occurred on her watch and it beggars belief that she knew nothing about them as Helga and mates were in the room and privy to comms. Whilst in her last role her staff were on site and were also apparently oblivious to the problems. So much was going on but nobody on site seems to have noticed. I think she said as much to the JSC but unfortunately forgot to mention that she had previously worked for MTC and was fully aware of the issues which was somewhat relevant as she was being held to account by a parliamentary committee (she later stated that she should have declared her previous connection to Rainsbrook but perhaps we should be generous and understand that when you are a high flyer you tend to forget things that might prove embarrassing or inconvenient and only remember when things were ok. After all we all make mistakes and deserve a second chance to be rewarded with an even better paid job). Bit of a sordid tangled web of whatnot. I wonder if the whole lot need to be referred to Specsavers. Meanwhile Teflon coated and squeaky clean Helga goes off merrily to yet another generously remunerated role. Watch carefully who she brings with her or appoints. You couldn’t make it up so the truth will have to suffice.
DeleteDoesn't sound like Helga managed to slither out before the excreta hit the extractor on this occasion. The article reads to me like a litany of failure. Talk about 'damned by faint praise'.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/her-majestys-prison-and-probation-service-workforce-quarterly-june-2022/her-majestys-prison-and-probation-service-workforce-quarterly-june-2022
ReplyDelete"3. Probation practitioners and senior probation officers
4,542 FTE band 4 probation officers in post (as at 30 June 2022)
This figure is a slight increase of 85 FTE (1.9%) since 30 June 2021 and an increase of 204 FTE (4.7%) probation officers compared to 31 March 2022. In addition to the band 4 probation officers, there were 5,811 FTE band 3 probation services officers: a slight increase of 94 FTE (1.7%) since 30 June 2021 and a decrease of 293 FTE (4.8%) since 31 March 2022 ."
"The most common category of sickness absence in terms of days lost was mental and behavioural disorders, corresponding to 30.3% of absences in the past year. This category was most prevalent for probation officers, where 50.0% of working days lost were attributed to mental and behavioural disorders."
DeleteTaken from the report, 50% of PO sickness due to mental/behavioural disorder. I'm guessing mainly stress related. It's a scandal.
Is that bad recruitment or poorly skilled po grades staff. If it is caused by overworking then the choice is with those going off sick. There protections in place as well as
DeletePolicies health and safety and agreements on working time. Don't blame anyone .
That figure comes as no surprise to me. It is as endemic in Probation as Covid . Its not so much if you will go under, but when. Where I work there is plenty of evidence of stress and distress, those colleagues crying on the way to work, crying at work, sniping at each other. Those that glumly pound their keyboards and mutter expletives under their breath. Those that invariably succumb to an illness at the start of their annual leave. It is an unheathy workplace
Delete@16:29... not sure you understand how it is for some staff or, if you do, whether you are simply being provocative for a reason.
DeleteThere are massive issues with bullying, of wholly unreasonable & abusive behaviour endemic within managerial ranks - and that is top down with some managers being just as likely to be on the shitty end of the stick.
Staff who are on the receiving end fear for their jobs & are often denied access to the 'protections' as a result of fabricated issues of 'competency'; sometimes compounded by other colleagues collaborating with management (presumably in a desperate bid to secure their own jobs). Overwork is predominantly the consequence of staff absences/vacancies which are the consequence of poor management - which is evident at every level from SPOs through regional directors to CPO & DG/CEO.
Staff who are at breaking point for whatever reason do not need more blame & shame laid - without foundation - on their shoulders.
We should be supporting each other, not scything each others' legs from under them.
Sickness and stress is something management of old understood, old school SPOs would shout it from the rooftops and CPOs would want to hear it. I suspect that current SPOs are told “don’t bring me problems bring me solutions “. Whilst on the subject of SPOs, I am furious that they keep their original title but POs are now probation practitioners. In every relevant document-banking, mortgage, etc etc I have detailed myself as a probation officer , further I qualified as a probation officer so can I now describe myself as I feel fit? “ I am a state agent of social control “, “ I am a data imputter”, “I am a twat”, I am a “ snake oil salesman climbing a ladder with a long tongue and no principles SOSCLLTNP. What a shit career this has become and although I am from the advise assist and befriend era, I feel that the public were far more protected from harm than the current totally dysfunctional model
ReplyDeleteVery rose-tinted. How far do we go back. A decade, two or three ago Probation SPOs were more collusive, racist, sexist, misogynist, misandrist … should I go on. Chief Officers we’re just as bad and totally disconnected from the reality. Not much has changed.
DeletePersonally I wonder whether it would be acceptable to the staff group for Probation Officers to retain that title, and PSO be renamed "Probation practitioners". We could then do away with terms such as offender managers, responsible officers and prison offender managers. IF people really feel the need to use anacronymns we could use the collective term "POs and PPs" with the add on "prison/Community"......although then people working in prison would be named PPOs and PPPs LOL!
DeleteAll the anacronymns make probation sound like the feds.
DeleteJust FYI, I've been able to unprotect every template Delius creates and type in that I'm a Probation officer rather than accept the drop downs.
DeleteUnacceptable. That’s a Discipline issue. You need reprimanding
DeleteThe last comment was mine Jim, as much as this site must wear you out you are a part of history. Much respect Mushroom
ReplyDeleteSigned off with stress - sent to Occ Health who recommend a stress risk assessment- am still waiting for that 12 months later
ReplyDeleteThe person who wrote the comment on 17/9/2022 at 20:11 is utterly right. Management collusive with staff they've known against newer staff. Blaming you, never them. Blaming you rather than the workload. Blaming your time management not the workload. Never addressing the elephant in the room. I sit here on a Saturday doing more work. I'm exhausted and just want to leave. I've not been here a year. The Probation Service never addresses these issues, so they keep occurring. People leave and they're not replaced. The pressure is immense. But when the system blames the Probation Officer rather than looking at the bigger picture, well, that's the continuing recipe for failure and becoming more and more unfit for purpose. Don't get me started on the P-taking suction of good will from people who are throughly incredible at what they're trying to do by people who should know better. You need to nurture and cherish these people- instead, it's what more can we get out of you for no extra pay. It's a nest of vipers and the toxicity comes from the SPOs and above and shamefully other POs in silo working, cliques and cabals from established relationships where interlopers are predatorily singled out.
ReplyDeleteWell don’t sit working on Saturday.
DeleteExactly . Pos ask for it. Let em single you out let run false capability . In a certain county the stupid management who are bordering some power craze continued a disciplinary process after the staff had left. This is how bonkers these managers are today. Why you might ask, is because the union reps are useless and why is that , because those elected are weak and not able. It's gotten worse in 5 years and we need to get back to basics do the core job get proper skilled reps and make these mad managers accountable. Oh and a new general secretary not a spineless coward.
DeleteVery helpful.... thank you!
DeleteFor the sake of balance, I would like to say that in my case I didnt leave, management carried on the discipline process, my Union rep was awesome, and I am still here.
DeleteAnd just for the hell of it - unrelated to the above case/s - my situation involved a compromised union rep who spent weeks trying to persuade me to throw my hand in & three managers submitting fabricated evidence. Thankfully the panel chair wisely took independent advice & was strong enough to dismiss the fabricated evidence, dismiss the substantive & equally fabricated allegations, & make a fair finding of fact.
DeleteReputation intact I was able to leave on my terms. Another 27+ years' experience lost.
Couldn't be happier to have left such a toxic pit of vipers.
Couldn't be more sad to see what's happened to the once noble profession.
Thats the neoliberal way anon 20:48 - its always the individuals fault, not capitalism. If your stressed by the unrealistic expectations, its not because theres a problem of putting profit above human need, but because your not pulling your boot straps up/being mindful, and rather than make structural changes like improving working conditions and having less managers, you need to do 6 sessions of cbt.
DeleteI also know of one PDU in London where there are 1,100 unallocated cases. That's just unsustainable.
ReplyDeleteThis is the situation everywhere. It’s the same difference whether unallocated or allocated to those already overworked.
DeleteDoes anyone know if there are any Probation employers prepared to employ fully qualified and experienced Probation Officer on a working from home/ remote basis? I want to be able to spend extended periods in Europe under the 90 day rule and wondered if this would be possible? Surely if there are 1000's of unsupervised service users it would be better to have someone managing them through calls, video link, whattsapp etc than not at all? Everything can be done remotely now so why not give it a go?
DeleteAnonymous @ 11:45
DeleteI recently had an email from a recruitment agency offering fully remote working in London.
If it's probation acceptable to do probation work remotely, then make it all remote and fully automated. Close all the offices, and put kiosks with telephones in shopping centres, police stations and council offices.
DeleteOpen a couple of offices and call centres in the Philippines where the information and data from the kiosks can be processed and staff can be paid buttons. That can in turn be related to another office in the Philippines where staff are again paid buttons to make decisions and relay those decisions somewhere else, maybe even Deli.
Remotely run probation could save the tax payer £billions.
Probation is about working WITH people, real time engagement and relationships. You sort problems with bank accounts, council tax and internet connections remotely, by phone calls that tell you to press one for this, press two for that or press three for the other.
How remote has the relationship between probation officer and service user got to be before probation itself becomes a pointless endeavor and far too costly to sustain?
If you can supervise someone from abroad, then you can employ people from abroad to do it far more cheaply.
Honestly, I'd be careful what I wish for!
'Getafix
@11:45 oh dear oh dear . This is exactly why your jobs are screwed. The sort of thinking that destroyed hard working pos within our own ranks .we all know of dozens of po graded staff doing jobs for years whereby they never work frontline with any cases. The too many full time national officials for example. Those on managerial jobs in charge of psos but no cases. The detached staff who are involved in wink wink projects. The roles the politically careful date not mention in the workplace. It means we may have a thousand po staff but only 300 are managing cases. Gone are the days when a spo also managed the higher risks to aid staff. The very selfish notion of being remotely based looking at cases in the sunshine makes a complete mockery and joke of the role. How could anyone attend anything properly or quickly. Recall breach SFO mappa. The idea it's all teams is what makes the job fail is the.clients and signals the employers it's a racket for individuals. Shockingly naive selfish poster.
DeleteActual probation work has taken a back seat for too long. Easy solution to the recruitment crisis. Pull all probation officers out of secondments and non-frontline roles. Courts and prisons only need minimal numbers of probation officers.
DeleteAnon 11:45 is blatantly a Silicone Valley rep.
DeleteGetafix is right, it might as well just be outsourced like everything else. You win capitalism.
DeleteFor those who worked from home - it aint too late:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/may/14/hmrc-tax-break-home-workers-claim-covid-relief-office
allowance)
ReplyDeleteInner London £35,931
Outer London £34,140 to £36,140 *
South and South East £32,702 to £34,202 *
Turn keys earning more than us now !
Prison officer salaries starting pay
It has been a more responsible job for poa given the level of risk they face daily. They actually see and deal with offender inmate problems make decesions and generate some.skill in harmony on wings and institutions. Probation officers by comparison really do very little that will make any difference in an offenders life. More pay for what exactly . The differentials between all probation staff are ridiculous at least the poa have established a regulatory remuneration across all staffing.
DeleteI don't believe those numbers are correct, please post a source?
DeleteEven if it's only in the workshops, on the landings and locking people up, prison officers spend far more time engaging with the people in their charge then probation staff do.
DeleteThey deal with violence every day, suicides and self harm in real time, and working from home or remote working isn't an option.
Why wouldn't a prison officer expect a bit more then a probation officer who sees their clients individually every couple of weeks (if not contact by telephone), and spends most of their time in the office doing tick box exercises and filling in OASyS?
I don't think probation should be part of HMPPS, but I don't see anything that probation does in todays world that makes it an elite agency within the CJS either.
'Getafix
20:05. I did not post the prison officer salaries, but the figures are easy to find on the internet. They include unsocial hours allowance and are for a 39hr week. Some include a market supplement.
Deletehttps://prisonandprobationjobs.gov.uk/prison-officer/rewards-and-benefits/
18:47 The term you use to describe prison officer colleagues is offensive and divisive akin to calling us welfare anoraks. Whilst it is sometimes useful to compare our salaries with similar professional groups during pay negotiations simply using it to whip up division is simply provocative. As Getafix rightly says we are paid for the job we do. We should never resent the pay of others who have high rates of union membership and have strong representation. We are responsible for the sorry circumstances we find ourselves in. We are not victims. We let the rot set in and did not take decisive action when it would have been effective and continue to prop up those responsible no doubt applauding some of them at the forthcoming Napo AGM rather than supporting a vote of no confidence to remove them.
DeleteProbation needs to fight and win the argument for alignment with similar professions such as social work or even teaching and develop means to evidence and justify their worth rather than assume they are some sort of elite within an otherwise crap and politically tainted system. Given the poor training experience and low quality of current officers (how low can the bar go?) and lack of investment in retaining the inestimable value of happy well motivated experienced staff then some commitment to professionalism is required and if that means saying a decisive ‘no’ to excessive workloads and then so be it. They cannot sack us as any tribunal will be able to see that 140% on an employers measurement tool is excessive and it is within a workers right to refuse excessive work and not be sacked for doing so. Whingeing and whining about excessive work and low pay achieves nothing without action and bringing the entire system to a grinding halt is counterproductive. All we need to do is do our work and work our hours and no more. The entire system is based on our goodwill and free work. Withdraw goodwill and stick to what you are paid to do within the time you are paid to do it and no more. Constantly ask what the priority is within your 37 hours and clarify what cannot be completed. Record the answers.
However, insisting on a properly functioning independent professional register and insisting on rates of pay linked to training professional experience and relevant qualifications is the way forward and the unions are surprisingly quiet about this despite the employers fears we will take back control of our profession. This is worth writing to your MP about. Do not let the government keep this in house and under their control where they can dictate the terms and link it to disciplinary and capability processes. They should not be allowed to own and control our profession otherwise we will continue to be treated like we are not a profession at all and we will go the way of the once proud profession of mule skinners.
Agree in terms of the face to face tike and risk. However in respect of expectations prison officers do not do the degree nor the academic side of the job with the complexities of risk assessment and report writing. Danger money yes an argument for but the professional role of a po should attract a higher salary.
DeleteNot a chance psos do the same role today nowhere near the same pay. You ought to try and sharpen the intellect it's a poor non transferable qualification and offers very little to academia. You may not like it but a better course is of course social work.
DeleteWell said - Anonymous21 September 2022 at 08:01 - I doubt if Anonymous20 September 2022 at 18:47 has worked alongside prison Offiucer colleagues in a prison or had a prison officer placed with her /him on attachment or donean attachement at a prison to learn about prison work.
DeleteDiminshing the work of other groups of public service workers does not help probation workers gain fair remuneration - the basis of trade unionism is uniting with others -
"the Workers United Will Never be Defeated"
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/neoliberals-driving-seat
This comment is deliberately provocative and misleading as it leaves out the fact that starting salaries for the vast majority of prison staff is actually £30k. In my local prison (HMP) the pay range as advertised is £28-32k
DeleteThats true @ Andrew re workers uniting. I see a lot of "our jobs a vocation, we need to get to its essence of advise, assist, and befriend" and in another breath "we're better than x, y, and z jobs because we're academically qualified".
DeleteIf the latter sentiment, which is ultimately middle-class, comes to dominate, probation might not find much/any solidarity from others.
One second its "we're a vocation, and need to get back to advise, assist, and befriend" the next its "prison officers do not do the degree nor the academic side of the job with the complexities of risk assessment and report writing. Danger money yes an argument for but the professional role of a po should attract a higher salary." Which is it anon 08:04 ?
DeleteYou misread as never said about advise assist and befriend. I myself would prefer that approach but we have been bogged down with risk management and the demands of assessments and oral hearings which can be highly complex. If you don't consider academic skills are evidenced in that work then you have little knowledge of the demands and expectations of it.
DeleteNot at all anon 21:50. Im on about the conflicted probation staff, who on the one hand want the role to go back to its essence, and on the other place an over emphasis on the academic, and seem to think that should be a condition of increased pay, to the point some are comparing themselves to other roles, like prison officers, and how they should get more because they're knowledge workers. I agree that the former (advise, assist, and befriend) is better, and well aware of the "academic skills" required for all the risk assessment procedures, and thats not what was being called into question.
Delete2042 how you worded it looked like you addressed the different viewpoints to me. The fact is it is academic skills that are needed and used by the service so of course this should attract pay which reflects that.
DeleteI dont have any doubt that academic skills are required to do current probation work, which has a lot of emphasis on risk management, but thats very different from the original 'advise, assist, befriend' model that people have rightly been saying they'd like the role to return to. If we want a society where only the white-collar middle class professionals are rewarded great.
DeleteIts not just the middle classes that have academic skills! The point is if there is no return back to the core of the work and reason why most wanted to do the job then of course academic work needs to be renumeration more than other roles which do not demand a degree nor level of expectation
Deletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001c05r
ReplyDeleteWriter Dr Shahed Yousaf is driving home to Birmingham from a very demanding day at work in prison.
Shahed is a GP who works in prisons, substance misuse centres and with the homeless community. He has just published a memoir: Stitched Up. He spends his time running between emergencies - from overdoses to assaults, from cell fires to suicides - with one hand always hovering over the panic button. He was shortlisted for the Bath Flash Fiction Prize 2016 and commended for the Faber & Faber FAB Prize 2017. Shahed won a place on to the Writing West Midlands Room 204 Mentoring scheme and the Middle Way Mentoring Project in 2019.
Deletehttps://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2022/09/21/youth-custody-system-dysfunctional-and-failing-girls-report-finds/
ReplyDeleteI have been a Probation Officer for over 25 years and always thought that they have a far harder job than us. They are worth every penny. Sitting at a computer filling in Oasys 6 hours a day, what good does that do anyone.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. As a probation officer I spend a lot of time visiting offenders in homes, hospitals and prisons. Many hours meeting in probation supervision rooms. I have to control my own environment and safety. THEN I am tied to my desk referring, phoning and tapping at the computer. Every decision I have to account for, including at MAPPA and Oral Hearings. There’s no overtime pay. My job is totally different from a prison officer. More difficult and complex in every way.
DeleteSimply not a chance you don't have the rigour of a prison officer and I have worked in both prison and probation. It isn't key turning it's more than just hello on a landing. Officers on wing are all assigned inmates for recording supporting and special needs. The role looks at early release issues adjustment ability to manage the jail . The assesments is ongoing and rigorous . Release is everyone's goal as long as it's assessed properly. Probation officers have an incredibly inflated self opinion of their job which after merger won't likely exist at all as it is .
DeleteApparently HM Prison and Probation Service was represented by a bunch of staff participating in the funeral procession on Monday.
ReplyDeleteGuess which ‘P’ wasn’t included?
Private communication:-
ReplyDelete"I work at a prison which has constant prison staffing shortfalls. Every day there’s all staff emails begging for cover for nights or weekends or escorts etc. And they want to build a super prison next door. If they can’t staff the one they’ve got, how are they going to get enough people to staff the new one safely? Not to mention qualified probation officers!"
From Twitter:-
ReplyDelete"Another resignation this week (PO). Adding to the trainees who have already resigned. SPO seen crying at their desk. It's bloody awful."
"I’m so sorry to hear this; but sadly not surprised. It was really bad at the point I resigned 15 months ago and from what I hear and read, it seems somehow even worse now. Probation as I once knew it appears to have gone forever."
"I have been speaking to some of our pqip’s and 3 of them have said they are not staying when they qualify, which is sad but not surprising."
"No surprise at all. The pay increase is not exactly huge, but the workload exponentially increases. NQO’s are also desirable to employers - two years experience in a challenging environment, with a degree and knowledge of local services and provisions."
"It's all about National Standards and the officer's welfare is not really a priority."
"Hasn’t the pay offer encouraged retention?"
"The majority of NAPO members are very unhappy with the pay offer. I feel it may be rejected."
Spo crying at the desk. That’s not leadership or inspiring confidence
DeleteJust some context and comparison.
ReplyDeleteMy niece is a doctor. She works in a hospital and oversees 6 wards. She works long hours, makes life and death decisions daily. A wrong decision may be career ending She works shifts on a rota basis, early mornings and nights.There isn't enough doctors or nurses to properly staff the wards, so theres never a lunch break or even a cup of tea.
She's paid slightly over £41k per annum.
However she has over £60k student debt from her 6 years at university with an interest rate of 9% attached.
She pays tax and NI and every pound she earn over £25k has a 10p deduction to repay her debt.
She has to pay the same rate as visitor to park at work, so ten hours parking fees every day she works.
If she wants to advance in her career she has to fund her own training and pay for the courses she selects to do.
Because of her student debt and the high cost of property she's unable to get a mortgage on her own. Luckily for her a lot of other doctors are in the same situation, so herself and two other doctors have bought a property between them. If she was renting she'd have to share anyway.
She wont finish paying back debt she accrued as a necessary prerequisite to enter her chosen profession until shes at least 50.
There are lots of occupations that don't attract the recognition or remuneration that they deserve, but they're all different with their own individual complexities.
It's just wrong to think if they're getting that amount I should be getting this amount.
When you stop to peel the layers of the onion, you might find that you're not as bad off as you first thought.
'Getafix
I still haven't met a single person in the office who opposes the pay deal.
ReplyDeleteI haven’t met a single person that wants it, except for managers and those getting London weighting.
DeleteQuote from a old lag the other day ‘ ‘probation those cu&&& their worse than the old bill ‘
ReplyDeleteReflect on that one
No point in arguing about the pay differences between probation and prison officers. The job is different and how many probation staff would be willing to work unsocial hours, not many.
ReplyDeleteMany probation staff work unsocial hours, usually unpaid too.
DeleteManagement badgering us to vote for the deal. Been called in to check we voted.
ReplyDeleteTell the management to fuck off . Voting is between you and your protected rights as a union member . It's a contractual protection they must be shitting probation public service will join other national strikes to be effective in UK. They needn't worry we have Napo Ian Lawrence tongue tied coward so I guess he's already agreed it
DeleteThe deal favours senior managers. RPDs will be telling them to get it agreed.
DeletePrivate email:-
ReplyDelete"The people survey is out. Perhaps you might publicise the view that the best way to convey our frustration with leadership is simply not to complete the people survey. They are closely monitored for completions and even critical/negative feedback counts as positive engagement.
A substantial refusal to complete is a far more effective way to communicate our collective unhappiness. Don't know if you share this view but if you do perhaps you can use your platform to share? Thanks. In solidarity. "
Less completions mean less feedback to leaders mean less work for them. The best thing to do is to complete it many times over! I know this as we overheard our leaders hoping for low completion rates so there was less work to complete.
Delete"Fewer completions..."
DeleteBut yes, enter as many times as you like. Its a bit like their version of the NAPO ballot.
Complete the survey. Score the worst scores for every question. If the scale is 1-10 score 1. If it’s fully disagree to fully agree then fully disagree it is.
DeleteI could not agree more DO NOT COMPLETE THE SURVEY despite weekly publishing of completion rates for PDUs and Business Units to promote competition to get it done. Ask yourself with all you have to do is it best use of your time? This will get noticed at a time when we do not have a voice. If asked just say you’ve done it if it really is anonymous how can they prove you haven’t? As we all know some people will but if majority don’t that will get attention.
ReplyDeleteNo you’re wrong. Complete the survey. Say how bad it is. Give the worst scores possible for every question.
DeleteSix of one and half a dozen of another I think. When I am having a rant, I tell my manager ‘ if I don’t tell you how I feel, you will say you didn’t know.’
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, for how many years now have they asked if things have improved since the last survey and given assurances that they will get better, but as with so many other aspects of the job, they lie. They don’t just misinterpret or not understand or have a different viewpoint, they lie and look you right in the eye while doing so.
Any news on this pay ballot outcome? It was closed on the 20th no?
ReplyDeleteJust had a quick look on the NAPO. Website. Last communique 28th July 22.
ReplyDeleteIs there/ has there really been nothing happening since then?
Because Napo is useless and has been letting us get screwed over for the past 12 years. How can the prison service be taking over the probation service and not a sound from Napo except a single crappy letter nobody saw. In any other European country this would be a huge issue with a massive campaign against it.
Delete