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Pay won't improve the quality of the work. Interest, dedication, understanding, mutual obligations. Respect comes from the role not a pay rate and as we no longer provide the sort of interest level and guidance we once did, the job has no professional standing. It is a bain of my career seeing us tagging, signposting, yet neutered from real difference making practice. I no longer care. The pay is just what pays the mortgage.
Pay won't improve the quality of the work. Interest, dedication, understanding, mutual obligations. Respect comes from the role not a pay rate and as we no longer provide the sort of interest level and guidance we once did, the job has no professional standing. It is a bain of my career seeing us tagging, signposting, yet neutered from real difference making practice. I no longer care. The pay is just what pays the mortgage.
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I disagree, better pay does help inprove quality, mainly by improving recruitment, retention, and morale — but it won’t solve quality issues on its own. The biggest gains come when higher pay is combined with better resourcing, manageable caseloads, and strong leadership.
I disagree, better pay does help inprove quality, mainly by improving recruitment, retention, and morale — but it won’t solve quality issues on its own. The biggest gains come when higher pay is combined with better resourcing, manageable caseloads, and strong leadership.
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Of course, better pay means recruitment, retention, and morale. With more staff, more motivated staff, better quality of staff, better quality of work. Tired of this “it’s not just a job, we don’t do it for the money” RUBBISH. It IS just a job and we wouldn’t do it for free.
Of course, better pay means recruitment, retention, and morale. With more staff, more motivated staff, better quality of staff, better quality of work. Tired of this “it’s not just a job, we don’t do it for the money” RUBBISH. It IS just a job and we wouldn’t do it for free.
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Very true more money would be nice but the job these days and our fallen position in the justice system won't warrant a pay hike it's regarded as a low value role. Monitoring till an order runs its course, simple anyone does do it nowadays. The task is how we fight back to our status and what help we need to get there. By delivering a reduction in criminal behaviour attributable to qualitative interventions which require engagement and resetting offender activity crime free. We will never do that or demonstrate it. Get used to what we have become.
Very true more money would be nice but the job these days and our fallen position in the justice system won't warrant a pay hike it's regarded as a low value role. Monitoring till an order runs its course, simple anyone does do it nowadays. The task is how we fight back to our status and what help we need to get there. By delivering a reduction in criminal behaviour attributable to qualitative interventions which require engagement and resetting offender activity crime free. We will never do that or demonstrate it. Get used to what we have become.
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Double the pay. Double the number of staff. Half the caseloads. All that achieves is twice the number of staff being paid twice as much for half the work and still doing the same old shite that attracts the same old inadequate inspection assessments. It's just a job? How can being charged with public protection and claiming the right to take someone's liberty away ever be described as "just a job?" The thing too with "just a job" means you're selling your labour, not your skillset. If it's "Just a job" then get used to a set hourly rate with lower and lower pay increases whilst the national minimum wage raises at a faster rate until probation itself becomes a national minimum wage job. Actually I asked a question a week or two ago, "do people see probation as white collar or blue collar employment?'. If probation work is "just a job", a simple exchange of labour for renumeration, why would probation workers expect to be paid more then the national minimum wage? Just a thought!
Double the pay. Double the number of staff. Half the caseloads. All that achieves is twice the number of staff being paid twice as much for half the work and still doing the same old shite that attracts the same old inadequate inspection assessments. It's just a job? How can being charged with public protection and claiming the right to take someone's liberty away ever be described as "just a job?" The thing too with "just a job" means you're selling your labour, not your skillset. If it's "Just a job" then get used to a set hourly rate with lower and lower pay increases whilst the national minimum wage raises at a faster rate until probation itself becomes a national minimum wage job. Actually I asked a question a week or two ago, "do people see probation as white collar or blue collar employment?'. If probation work is "just a job", a simple exchange of labour for renumeration, why would probation workers expect to be paid more then the national minimum wage? Just a thought!
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If I had my caseload cut to 25 then I could actually do the work I wanted to with them and develop a proper relationship with my cases instead of sometimes seeing them as an impediment. I usually find most of your comments informative but this one is pretty poor. Plus we're already doing twice the work for half the pay if as the MOJ research states, another 10000 officers are needed on current caseloads.
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I saw that question posed and it had a reflective impact. I wanted to say white but know what it has become. It's still white but I know it's really blue. It still upsets me to have answered this conundrum. It is just a job now after and sadly [above] may have it right because it how I feel. I want a better job more than money, so it is not about pay for me. Yes more than 10 years in pquip and wondering what was the point.*****
Quite a debate to be had on the issues raised here. In the first instance, we, the supposed professionals didn’t make the job what it’s become. That is down to the glorious leaders who, as I said last week, haven’t identified where we are being led to, how long it will take, what we will experience on the way, and how we will know when we arrive. I’m sure they have an agenda, they just haven’t shared it yet. Secondly, if it is, ‘just a job,’ perhaps we should be campaigning to forego salary status and be paid by the hour. I think that once they are forced to quantify the amount of free labour they currently extract, they might be keen to come back with an offer of decent remuneration. As things stand, the leaders are asking themselves and you, ‘why should we pay for something we are currently getting for nothing.’ Unfortunately, until our own people decide whether it’s, ‘just a job,’ or a prized and valued vocation, we will get nowhere. Whoever said you can’t have it all ways had obviously never studied the probation workforce.
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It is quite a debate although an interesting point on the risk of pay decline. It is about vocation as well but the alarm should be ringing in our ears. I like the idea of stopping the extra for free so how do we get our lacklustre union to formulate this proposal a blended approach.
It is quite a debate although an interesting point on the risk of pay decline. It is about vocation as well but the alarm should be ringing in our ears. I like the idea of stopping the extra for free so how do we get our lacklustre union to formulate this proposal a blended approach.
"Jones’s team has conducted more than 40 inspections of probation offices, which assessed their duty to protect the public, and each one was rated as “inadequate” or “requires improvement”... several inspections had found that about a third of offenders who were released into the community were not properly assessed."
ReplyDelete“What that means, in really sharp terms, is that [probation staff] do not understand enough about the risk of the people that they’re managing. The probation service is managing 160,000 offenders in the community. We have found that two-thirds of those cases – around 100,000 cases – are not being managed properly … So we are talking about tens of thousands of people who pose a risk to women and girls." - Jones, HMI Probation
Is this a platform for demanding more pay? It doesn't matter if you're badly managed, overloaded or treated like shit... who will support throwing more money at a failing service that can't do the basics?
What Jones doesn't do - usual hmip trick - is fail to land blows on those who are ultimately responsible. His words are a broadside against frontline practitioners who are trying to survive the insufferable circumstances created by the 'excellent leaders' over the past decade or so - the very same 'leaders' who are leaving, pockets stuffed with public money; romeo, rees, copple, etc.
And ne'er a word from or about the mysterious kte, the invisible alleged chief probation officer.
apologies, slight amendment required to para 4, delete "fail to":
Delete"What Jones doesn't do - usual hmip trick - is land blows..."
mea culpa. Poor gatekeeping.
The current Chief Probation Officer for England and Wales is Kim Thornden-Edwards, a senior leader at Her Majesty's Prison and Probation Service (HMPPS). Her role involves the operational management of probation services, ensuring probation officers meet professional standards, and overseeing the supervision of offenders to protect the public and help them become law-abiding citizens. She is responsible for managing high-risk offenders, including those with terrorist offenses, through the National Security Division.
ReplyDeleteWhat a Chief Probation Officer does:
Overall responsibility: The Chief Probation Officer is responsible for the entire probation service in England and Wales, overseeing its operations and ensuring the quality of supervision provided by probation officers.
Staff management: They manage the probation workforce, which consists of about 20,000 staff across 11 regions and Wales.
High-risk offender management: A key responsibility is the management of the National Security Division, which handles the highest-risk offenders, including those who have committed terrorist offenses.
Workforce development: They lead major initiatives to improve the capacity and capability of the probation workforce.
Strategic leadership: They provide senior leadership within HMPPS and contribute to the strategic direction of the probation service.
Public accountability: As the head of the profession, the Chief Probation Officer holds ultimate accountability for the probation service's performance and public impact.
Martin Jones, the Chief Inspector of Probation, and his team found that all inspected probation offices in England and Wales failed to adequately protect the public, with every office rated "inadequate" or "requires improvement". Inspections revealed that about a third of probationers were not properly assessed for their risk to the community, and insufficient information was used to develop plans for public safety. This issue extends to a lack of sufficient staff experience, training, and a failure to draw on information from social services or other agencies.
ReplyDeleteKey Findings from Jones's Inspections:
Universal Failure: Every single one of the 40+ probation office inspections conducted by Jones's team was rated "inadequate" or "requires improvement".
Inadequate Assessments: A significant portion of offenders released into the community were not properly assessed for risks, with approximately one-third of cases showing insufficient risk assessment.
Lack of Information Utilization: Probation officers often failed to collect and use relevant information from various sources, such as social services or other agencies, when completing risk assessments.
Insufficient Safeguarding: In many cases, there was a lack of adequate information on child safeguarding, with concerns not being escalated to children's services.
Staffing and Resources: The Probation Service is described as having too few staff with too little experience and training, leading to an unsustainable workload and consistently insufficient work to keep the public safe.
ReplyDeleteNews reaches me of this:-
The States of Guernsey are looking to recruit x3 Probation Officers to join the Probation Service.
**Window closes for applications closes on 26th September!**
£50,734 - £63,762 per annum
Ref - 247969
Probation Officers are the operational staff of the Probation Service having the one-to-one contact with offenders to assess, monitor and provide therapeutic interventions to reduce and manage offending behaviour.
Given the nature of the work, the post requires flexible working which may include full or part time secondment to the Offender Management Unit at the Prison. If interested Candidates will need to send me a copy of their most up to date CV detailing full employment, voluntary work, and education history (along with the awarding body of any qualifications). The CV should include reasons for any gaps in employment.
Candidates should also attach supporting information to demonstrate how they meet the key criteria for the role – points 1-10. The key criteria can be found within the job description which I will send after you have registered your interest with me.
The supporting information provided by candidates in this will be used by the shortlisting panel when selecting candidates for interview.
Bens / Relocation:
Relocation package of £5,000 if privately renting. Rent allowance for 4 years to support with private rent, or subsidised accommodation for those travelling alone.
Work-life balance
Other things of note about this position before you apply – considerably different to the UK:
This role is different to the roles in the UK – instead of having a specialist area that you work, in Guernsey you will do everything, from attending court right through to the end of the process. This is not just case management – in Guernsey the probation officer will do the interventions work with the offender. They understand that you may not have covered every area end to end in the process – but there definitely needs to be the willingness to do it all.
Prison – you will go to the prison as well unlike in the UK where a lot of the time you will hand it over. Predominantly you will be working in the offices, not from home – being an island its unlikely that you will be longer than 15 mins from work, so you will be working in the office as part of the close-knit team.
Team Player – important that you understand this element and that you are prepared to help out your team where required, this is a good team who work well together.
Likely to bump into your clients from time to time – restaurants or supermarket etc. You get to see the process through from start to finish! Case Loads – largely UNDER 30…