I must say I was surprised to see Pat Waterman enter the Napo election fray by sending the following email to all Greater London Branch members. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think it's at all appropriate and given recent history, some might feel her judgement and reasoning is a little suspect :-
Who I shall be voting for in the NAPO National Elections
There is to be an election this year for the posts of National Chair, National Vice-Chair and NEC Black Representative. Members who are eligible to vote should by now have received Ballot Papers from the Electoral Reform Services (ERS). Ballot Papers must be returned to ERS by Noon on Friday 22nd August 2014. If you have not yet received Ballot Papers I would advise you to contact NAPO HQ (020 7223 4887) without delay.
Last year Greater London Branch nominated Tom Rendon, a former chair of this branch, for the post of National Chair. Last year I advised the branch that I would be voting for him as I believed that he was :
Who I shall be voting for in the NAPO National Elections
There is to be an election this year for the posts of National Chair, National Vice-Chair and NEC Black Representative. Members who are eligible to vote should by now have received Ballot Papers from the Electoral Reform Services (ERS). Ballot Papers must be returned to ERS by Noon on Friday 22nd August 2014. If you have not yet received Ballot Papers I would advise you to contact NAPO HQ (020 7223 4887) without delay.
Last year Greater London Branch nominated Tom Rendon, a former chair of this branch, for the post of National Chair. Last year I advised the branch that I would be voting for him as I believed that he was :
“the best person for the job; the most capable and competent candidate to lead this union in what will undoubtedly be the difficult times ahead”.I was delighted as anybody else at the time when he was duly elected. This year there are no candidates from Greater London Branch standing for either National Chair or Vice Chair.
Much as I like the stirring rhetoric of Dino Peros, I shall not be voting for him. This union has had its difficulties in recent years (even before we were split into two organisations). Those who held office at the time have to take some responsibility for what happened among our national officials. We need to move on if we are to survive as a trade union and, in my view, this involves bringing in “new brooms”.
I shall be voting for Yvonne Pattison/Chris Winters. As a feminist, where there is a creditable female candidate they will always get my vote. This time we have two. I also think that “job shares” are a good thing. The unfortunate personal circumstances that led to the demise of the most recent job share should not detract from the commitment of the current candidates to work together. In the 1990’s the post of National Chair was shared between John Hague (a member of Greater London Branch) and Jo Thompson (a member of what is now Trent Branch). This arrangement worked to the benefit of the individuals concerned and to the benefit of this union.
I am often castigated in National NAPO circles for being too London-centric. Voting for Yvonne and Chris would certainly shift the locus of power further north. Neither Yvonne nor Chris are known for their bombastic speechifying. But there is more to being a National Chair. They are both diligent hard workers and I feel sure that my union will be safe in their hands.
I shall be voting for Chas Berry for Vice Chair because of his explicitly Socialist politics. Reading his statement made me quite nostalgic for the old days when I was a member of NAPO Members Action Group. As a founder member of Women in NAPO I believe that women, especially younger women, should be encouraged and so I shall be voting for Katie Lomas for the other Vice Chair vacancy.
Richard Ogwang-Aguma is a member of our Branch Executive and gets my support as the NEC Black Representative.
I know most of the candidates standing for office and my views are based on my experience of meeting or working with them as well as my own personal beliefs. But this is just what I think. Make up your own minds but whatever you do vote. It’s your union.
Pat Waterman Chair
Greater London Branch NAPO
I note with interest Pat's reasons for supporting Yvonne Pattison and Chris Winters and by way of contrast, her reason for not supporting Dino Peros:-
Those who held office at the time have to take some responsibility for what happened among our national officials. We need to move on if we are to survive as a trade union and, in my view, this involves bringing in “new brooms”.Here is Yvonne answering a critic on Facebook recently:-
I have to say I am completely disillusioned with NAPO don't really see the point in a vote never mind the union. What are they doing nationally! Tim
Hi Tim there is lots going on nationally with Napo...do you read the campaign bulletins and other communications coming out of HQ. to give some examples Tania and Ian and sometimes one of the officers meet with Simeon and Lori most weeks who work within Parliament and are feeding information and questions in constantly. Mike and Dean are in contact with Noms constantly and attend regular meetings looking at PI's, measures and issues around TR. We have had lots of effective press coverage in the independent as well as other papers. Believe me everyone at Chivalry Road is working really hard..if there's anything you feel we should be doing and aren't please let us know.
I agree, people should do their own research and not follow endorsements, no matter where they come from! I suppose GLB may have expected some guidance, but really, this is too much!
ReplyDeleteHave tried to find the post Yvonne P made on Saveprobation Facebook that you quoted the other day Jim without success.Whats the exact name of FB page please.Thanks
ReplyDeletesaveprobation - probation staff against privatisation
Delete"This page is a forum for staff and concerned members of the public to discuss any ideas that might influence the government to re-think and indeed abandon their plans to sell off 70% of the Probation Service."
"It's a 'secret group' and only members see the group, who's in it and what members post." Membership is by invitation of existing members I believe.
Sounds like a clique to me! Invite only? FFS!!!
DeleteIt is a GLB tradition to express a view about candidates and invite members to discuss. Pat admits she endorsed the now departed National Chair and could not have foreseen what was to come. Of course there are those who may well also wish to show their support for a particular candidate and this may well later prove to be a mistake but that's life. There are even those who apparently want the old General Secretary to return accompanied by his old muckers such as Dino and keep any women from obtaining any position of power. That to me is a bigger worry.
ReplyDelete"There are even those who apparently want the old General Secretary to return accompanied by his old muckers such as Dino and keep any women from obtaining any position of power. That to me is a bigger worry."
DeleteBased on my knowledge I'd say that's an utterly scandalous statement verging on complete bollocks - this election looks like it might get quite interesting.
Seems to me Pat cannot have known Tom very well and he didn't think much of his Officrrs Group or NEC or his Greatrr London Branch colleagues who nominated him not to seek wider support if he thought things were so adrift with TR campaign that all he could do was resign with no notice.He came across as tempremental to me.
Delete"Seems to me Pat cannot have known Tom very well" - I've been told he was active in the campaign to try and unseat her as GLB Chair.
DeleteAn open secret in London. The issue then is "why?" As for resigning because the campaign was adrift, anybody else think it might have been more to do with the reception he would have got if he'd shown up at AGM?
DeleteAnon 9:15 Could I suggest you contact Dino, your perception is way off beam, he is certainly not one of the muckers who supported the unscrupulous actions of the former GS and as a women I can honestly say he has no issues around women in power as you suggest. He did indeed chair an investigation into allegations against the GS and given credit by the tribunal for an objective investigation.
DeleteAnon 2245 I know Dino very well and he is certainly a survivor. He does tend to flirt though this is largely harmless. The most serious criticism I would make is that he doesn't appear to support POs and thinks there is no difference between them and PSOs You either like him or loathe him but most think he had his chance to shine and few remember him making an impact when he was last at NapoHQ
DeleteOh good it looks like harry fletchers attempts to get his people at the top table via this blog has taken a knock. Well done pat. Some of the things you have posted on this blog have been utter nonsense as well. Im really pleased to see that there are some Napo members that can see right through your message. Napo now needs to distance itself from the PI .
ReplyDeleteWTF?
Delete"Oh good it looks like harry fletchers attempts to get his people at the top table via this blog has taken a knock." Yet more bollocks! Do tell us who you think Harry Fletcher's people are?
DeleteWas just musing on Pat's reference to "where there is a creditable female candidate they will always get my vote" and thought I'd check the meaning of creditable on google. Sounds like this is more like faint praise than a ringing endorsement : "creditable
Deleteˈkrɛdɪtəb(ə)l/
adjective
(of a performance, effort, or action) deserving public acknowledgement and praise but not necessarily outstanding or successful." Perhaps she meant "credible" which means " capable of persuading people that something will happen or be successful" ?
Oops have i revealed too much sorry
ReplyDeleteLook, don't be a prat - just tell us what you know, or think you know, then others can respond. It's quite simple.
Delete" We hear that Judy McKnight regarded the NEC as the dog that often failed to bark or lacked any bite."
Deletehttp://probationmatters.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/election-special-2.html
Judy McKnight retired 6 years ago!
Given all these snipes and innuendo I'm going to vote for Robbie B who speaks coherently and hss not held a position at Chiv Rd before so would be a clean pair of hands and has served a long apprenticeship with NEC and Committees.
DeleteWell all of these snipes/innuendo have helped me to decide to vote for Robbie B who communicates clearly and concisely,has served a long "apprenticeship" with NEC and Committees and has no history where one could question her links/support of others who have let us down in high office.
ReplyDeleteApologies as Anon 12.39 and 13.31 for posting twice-was on train and I thought original post had not registered!
DeleteJust red an article passed on by Unison, where a minister has admitted that names where selected randomly. Can't remember the full details.
ReplyDeleteSaid Minister Andrew Selous wrote it in a parliamentary answer which has even been quoted by people outside of probation and commented upon several times in various internet places - for reference - this come to mind: -
Deletehttp://www.napo2.org.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=768
and this : -
http://www.napo2.org.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=777
i am pretty sure Jim Brown and other commenters have also mentioned it but I cannot recall precisely when
A manager in the NPS admitted that his higher mangers are being untruthful about the shambles saying its "going smoothly". Bollocks. When did all the higher managers loose their integrity and honesty, by fooling themselves when the shit hits the fan they will be in the firing line, so best be honest from now would be my policy.
ReplyDeleteAs anon at 12.58 says: -
Delete" best be honest from now would be my policy. "
ESPECIALLY as an MOJ spokesperson has been quoted as saying in the press: -
" The MoJ said the programme was being "rolled out in a controlled way to ensure we maintain public safety", and that it was "complete rubbish that staff are being silenced". "!
http://www.napo2.org.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=779
I have just checked The Independent newspapers website and that statement has not been amended, as presumably the MOJ would by now have demanded, if the spokesperson either did not say that or was wrong to say it - I suggest EVERY probation practitioner, makes a picture copy of the actual words and has it by them to quote when they phone their local radio station to describe hoe TR is for them!
THAT IS HOW TO GET THE NONSENSE STOPPED!
Jim good article in the Independent on Sunday.
ReplyDelete"Ex-Justice minister backs opponents of probation reform"
Looks like the worm is turning; good old Chrispin
Nothing wrong in GLB chair, as an opinion leader, should share her view with her members. It becomes another factor that voters can consider. Fair enough.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree and as a London member I really welcomed her email as much as I welcome thoughts on here. It's perfectly legitimate to have open discussion and endorsement in any democratic process. Criticism can be rebuffed and answered, opposing views can be expressed and all can have their say. That is democracy folks. Being elected chair of a large vocal branch gives you more space to air your views. But that is also democracy. The more open discussion napo has - the better say I.
ReplyDeletewell said
DeleteI agree an open view is welcomed but really to say I would vote for this pair just because they are female. Come on Pat you are much better and more intelligent than that aren't you? I want my union to be in a safe pair of hands thank you, we had a split chair and that was disastrous. This pair will just be the Muppets for the GS. I have seen them in action and they are, in my view, not confident enough to be leaders at this difficult time. We need experience and we need confidence and we need someone not afraid of upsetting people when tough decisions need to be made. Dino gets my vote he is leaps ahead of any other candidate.
DeleteAnon 22:57 Pat is a smart cookie and I think she is making a more subtle point about positive discrimination than you give her credit. Even the use of the word 'creditable' (rather than credible or suitable) would seem to suggest no candidate is as strong as she would have liked but she is voting on principle. Dino is certainly capable of upsetting people but sometimes that is because he shoots from the hip and does not bother to acquaint himself with the facts first. Making decisions is easy but making the right ones and knowing when to act and when to let matters play out are what sorts out the wise leaders from the opportunists. Dino might as you say leap but the question is does he look first? My experience of him seems to suggest he doesn't always do so.
DeleteI don't know what the fuck what any of you are on about! Most of us haven't a clue who any of these people are and their anodyne pitches for the job don't give much away... it's all very 'New Labour'....
ReplyDeleteSimon Garden
Did you not think of standing SG?
ReplyDeleteSimon Garden...the George Galloway to the 'New Labour'NAPO.
DeleteI feel I have been plugged into this fight, and interacting with pretty much everyone for months now, and find very little or nothing in Yvonne's comments that appears borne out by fact. In fact, I regret to say I can only agree with so many Probation Officers who feel that it is not at all evident how Ian and Tania have been advancing the fight in any way over the last year or more, despite the gravity of our situation, and the many opportunities, and the terrible need, to publicise our case. If NAPO had been meeting our collective desire for action and publicity, there would be no need for people like me to try and fill the vacuum and to carry the fight.
ReplyDeleteWhatever you think of Dino, he is passionate, straightforward, and walks the walk, as well as talking the talk. Sometimes, his expression lets him down, but rather that than to be fobbed off, in my view. We have to work with those who will genuinely take up the fight. So I have it from a very good source for instance, that NAPO have not furnished a single Parliamentary Question since Harry Fletcher left, and I have heard that MPs feel that their briefings are totally and frustratingly inadequate. Moreover, Ian and Tania are often uncontactable and pretty much invisible (for instance, on holiday at a crucial time over Easter). I don't want to create division, and feel we should all work together, but this is all too important for the Probation Service to be short-changed. At the very least there is a massive perception problem that Yvonne's seemingly emollient words do little to dispel, and I see a vote for Dino at least as a vote to ensure that things do not stay the same with a coterie in office at NAPO who display little urgency to do more for Union members. If I can be convinced that I am wrong, and that masses has really been being done over the last year or so I will be hugely surprised, but also will be really happy to apologise. But it seems unlikely.
I regret very much feeling the need to write in a way that can be construed as critical, but it is vital to be clear, I think.
Are you in NAPO at the moment Joanna?
DeleteWell Joanna you are endorsing a candidate in an election, unless you are still a Napo member, you cannot vote in. If we were to describe the characteristics of the best candidate for the job it would not be Dino. Napo has been doing a great deal over the year but perhaps they have not always been so good at publicising this. As National Chair it is essential to be a good communicator however passionate you might be and also be a leader with a clear purpose and sense of direction. Dino did not stand head ad shoulders above anyone else last time he was in office and seemed to spend most of his time championing PSOs to the detriment of other grades. I don't see him bringing anything new to the table and rather than challenging the GS he appears to be in awe of him when I have observed them in meetings where there has also been an embarrassing amount of male bonding taking place. This does not bode well.
DeleteBlimey! I am new to all this Union shenanigans. There are camps? There are consipiracies? Wowzer! I shall turn off Stenders and Game of Drones and tune in here daily. May have a bit of trouble suspending my disbelief, but the writing is pretty good overall.
ReplyDeleteWhy I admire Pat Waterman: she is fearless, passionate and articulate and she gets the voice of her membership to the ear of power in no uncertain terms. It is skillful, awesome and empowering, and I salute her.
ReplyDeleteWhy I am voting for Dino Peros: he is one of the most obnoxious people I know. As a manager I have in the past voted for him for national office just to get him out my hair locally. That is a very very good reason to vote for him now. He is as tenacious as a terrier, knows the terrain, and is a ferocious negotiator. Now is absolutely not the time to vote for people we "like". We need a bruiser who can knock heads together, who really understands the terrain, and who can navigate it with relentless focus and strategic cunning. He talks too much and too long, and his writing is tortuous, so what? We have a communications officer. I have a very high regard for the other candidates, but Dino has my vote.
I don't care. I'm not going to vote. I have no interest in who is who in napo.
DeleteNAPO have a crucial role to step up to and need to shake off the impression of self-interest and unwillingness to fight to the end these dishonest, destructive, ignorant and dangerous govt aims. Dino is fearless and says what needs to be said and fights for staff. He is right for what is needed right now.
DeleteI agree with most of what Su McConnell says above (29 July 23.48) I don't personally find Dino obnoxious but agree his style certainly has the Marmite factor. What cannot be disputed however is his ferocity and tenacity in his trade union role, his singlemindedness to the task with the focus squarely on protecting staff professional roles and his knowledge of workers rights. He may descend on Chivalry Rd like a tornado but that is definitely what we need right now. He gets my vote.
DeleteDeb
Su I found your comments about Dino highly amusing. He may well be good in individual representations for members at a local level however the cut and thrust of negotiating at national level with trained negotiators who are able to express themselves both verbally and in writing is a different ball game. We need people who can do this effortlessly otherwise it just looks like amateur hour.
DeleteHe may be an obnoxious bruiser who is boring, can't speak well, or write coherently and also be 'ferocious'/ 'tenacious' but such people are usually chancers who go in like a bull in a china shop and achieve nothing. Do we really want such an individual to head up our union given that they are representing the membership? No thanks
yes. He might do better then what we have had so far who have achieved nothing.
DeleteTotally agree with Anon @12:59
DeleteA bit harsh, but I agree with the sentiment entirely
DeleteI disagree with Anon @12:59 & 18:49. No clue what they are talking about.
DeleteWe need to bring Judy McKnight back from retirement! She was known as a bruiser and a very good negotiator. I know in my heart that she would have performed loads better than the current incumbent who lacks transparency and a mandate!
ReplyDeleteThe illusion of the queen over the water should be resisted- I am told she is a fine person but left staff problems to be deal with after her departure by those least suited to deal with them. The problematic relationships in chivalry road did not start after her departure. (Also remember the pay off concerns in the 80s at chivalry road).
ReplyDeleteNone of us is perfect - I am surprised that numbers seem to think if Napo was led by this or that person, or not lead by this or that person all would be well.
DeleteI have regard for Judy McKnight, but did not go in for the near worship some have shown or criticisms by others. According to her biography - for the benefit of Anon at 20.06 - she certainly was not responsible for any Napo staffing problems in the 1980s.
" Government Equalities Office -
Judy McKnight CBE
Biography
Judy McKnight was General Secretary of Napo, the trade union and professional association for family court and probation staff from 1993 until her retirement in 2008. She was previously a senior trade union official for the civil service unions which now form PCS. She was a member of the TUC General Council from 2000 to 2008, a member of the TUC Womens Committee since 1989 and it’s Chair since 2005. She is currently a member of the Central Arbitration Committee, the European Economic and Social Committee and the Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body. She was awarded the OBE in 1999 and the CBE in 2009 for services to industrial relations and equal opportunities. "
http://sta.geo.useconnect.co.uk/about_geo/corporate_information/governance/judy_mcknight_cbe.aspx
Napo is a democratic, one member one vote organisation - all members share responsibility - including those who do not attend meetings or take part in ballots AND we all enjoy/suffer the consequences.
It seems to me that over the years Napo has fared better in gaining attention for its concerns than other trades unions, but far stronger unions than Napo have been unable to resist the determined destruction that the current government is undertaking of so many services - just look at the state the lawyers are in!
apologies- did not wish to imply 80s were down to her - well before her time- agm in 80s debated pay-off to out going asst gen sec.- you were probably there also
DeleteI have a vague recollection of a pay off to a Napo employee before - but am not sure it was back as far as the 80s but I don't think it is likely that the reasons are comparable - sometimes, especially in small organisations, which as far as employees Napo is, it is not surprising that genuine mistakes maybe made in hiring, or there are policy changes, that mean the paid staff are needed for different tasks, to that for which they were employed (happened to me as a PO) and so it is a responsible employer, that does not just make a person redundant or dismiss but gives a measure of compensation - if a trades union is not to have good treatment of employees - it is unlikely other organisations can be expected to!
DeleteAt some point, in order to learn and amend the constitution accordingly, I believe Napo needs a fulsome enquiry, independently conducted, perhaps using skills or advice from GFTU,TUC or maybe even ACAS, - with the intention of producing a detailed report of all what went on as far as the Chivalry Road part of the organisation is concerned that led to pay offs and tribunals for two previously highly regarded members of staff. Such an inquiry might come from a motion to a GM or to the NEC, but it is not about publishing the salacious information, but more about how relationships went wrong and the Napo processes failed to prevent real damage being done to Napo - that has such as a rather nasty commenter 'Don' saying over night, something to the effect that Napo is a laughing stock at Westminster and/or in Parliament - though we can but speculate which part of Westminster 'Don' works.
Sadly our national representatives and local ones, are working with that reputation, for which they probably bear no direct responsibility.
So heaping ridicule and scorn on them seems a counter-productive exercise - Napo is the some total of ALL its members including me, every time I or someone else ridicules our organisation, especially if it is about something we personally did not take action about before, we are in effect ridiculing ourselves - even when we post anonymously - which is very sad.