UNISON would normally provide a recommendation to members as to how to vote in relation to a pay offer. However, on this occasion UNISON’s Probation Service Committee has not been able to arrive at such a recommendation.
The average 3.2% cost of living increase each year obviously falls well short of the current rate of inflation which stands at 12.3% (July 2022). Yes, eligible staff will get their pay progression in addition to their cost of living rises, but staff are expected to progress up their pay band each year in the Probation Service pay system and this should not be confused with an annual cost of living pay rise.
Taking the pros and cons of the offer into account, UNISON’s Committee decided that we should leave it up to individual members to decide for themselves how to vote on the offer. We are therefore taking a totally neutral position on the offer, but can point out the pros and cons of the offer as follows:
Pros
- All pay points (with two exceptions referred to above) in each pay band get a cost-of-living increase in each year of the 3-year offer
- New headroom is created in pay bands 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 by the creation of a new higher maximum pay point in each of these pay bands in year 3 of the offer. At the end of the three-year period of the offer, the pay points at the top of each of these pay bands will have risen to the following cash values, with the % increase on the cash values also shown:
PB3 £31650 12.2%
PB4 £42000 13%
PB5 £46000 12.1%
PB6 £52939 8%
- The starting salaries of pay bands 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 increase over the period of the offer as a result of the deletion of the lowest pay point in each of these pay bands. At the end of the three-year period of the offer, the starting salaries for these pay bands will be as follows, with the % increase on the current starting salaries also shown:
PB3 £26475 14.2%
PB4 £35130 16.3%
PB5 £44100 18.7%
PB6 £48305 17.8%
Please note that the % increases shown here are higher than the sum of the average % cost of living increases in the pay points in each pay band, because they are the result of pay points being deleted at the bottom of the pay band, as well as the impact of the cost of living increases.
- Pay progression will be paid on time in years 2 and 3 of the offer (on 1 April 2023 and 1 April 2024) rather than being delayed each year as a result of the need for Treasury approval
- Staff at the top of their pay bands at the end of the first year of the offer, will receive a £300 non-consolidated lump sum payment on 1 April 2023, and also 2024 for staff in pay bands A, B, C & D
- Allowances, such as London Weighting, Prison Supplement, Standby and Geographical Supplements all increase by 3% in each year of the offer
- London Weighting is extended to all staff who are contracted to work at locations within the boundary of the M25
- Overlaps between pay bands are removed by the end of the 3-year offer
- The cost of living rises in the offer, which average 3.2% a year, fall very short of the current rate of inflation which was 12.3% in July 2022 (retail prices index/RPI). The joint union pay claim was for a cost-of-living rise of 3% plus RPI inflation for each year of the award. So, the cost-of-living rises in the pay offer fall way below what is needed for probation pay to keep up with inflation.
- There is a difference between the cost of living rises on each pay point in each pay band – this is a lottery and a side-effect of the smoothing out of the gaps between the pay points in each pay band.
- There are some differences in the average cost of living rises between different pay bands over the 3 years of the offer:
3.6% for pay band 4
3.2% for pay band 2 and pay band 3
2.4% for pay band 6
- The cost of living rises in years 2 and 3 of the offer are not paid until 1 October, when they would normally be paid in April. These rises are therefore delayed by 6 months. As a result, staff will only receive half the value of the pay rise in their pockets in the pay year, although the value of the pay points themselves goes up by the full amount.
- There is no non-consolidated lump sum payment for staff at the top of their pay bands in year 1 of the offer. The unions asked for this, but the Probation Service was not able to fund it.
- The gap between the top of pay band 3 and the bottom of pay band 4 will widen from 7.1% to 11%. 11% is double the size of gap which will exist between most other pay bands at the end of the three-year offer. Given the similarities in some of the work carried out by PSOs and POs, this widening of the pay gap between the two roles is regrettable. There should be equal gaps between the pay bands, but the Probation Service was not able to increase the top of pay band 3 sufficiently to close the gap in the final offer.
- Market forces supplements (MFS) are being phased out and are likely to have disappeared for most staff currently in receipt of them by the end of the three-year pay offer. This will very probably see the re-emergence of recruitment and retention problems in the hard to recruit sites where the MFS is currently being paid.
- There is no increase in car mileage allowances. The cost of motoring has rocketed over the last year. Our pay claim sought to address this by asking the Probation Service to approach Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to increase the 45p/mile fixed profit car mileage allowance that applies across the civil service. At this point no such approach has been made.
- There is a question over whether the pay offer has been fully equality proofed. As set out above, the Probation Service has on the one hand indicated that the equality impact analysis of the offer is on-going and therefore incomplete, and on the other that it is now confident that the offer has been fully equality proofed. There is a risk that it may subsequently be discovered that the offer has some discriminatory effects.
Cost of living and inflation at over 12% so a probation pay rise of 3% is pathetic. Market supplements to disappear (why wasn’t everyone getting this in the first place?). Why an extra supplement for probation working in prisons, when community work just as difficult? London weighting widened to areas inside M25 only. HMPPS offer nothing to address retention problems. Strike!!
ReplyDeleteInsulting pay offer: STRIKE
DeleteThe prison allowance- is actually an environment allowance. For working in a hostile environment. It is entirely justified and earnt by our colleagues who work in Prisons. It has nothing to do with "difficulty" of the work.
ReplyDeleteRest of your points are valid.
Probation offices are hostile environments too. It’s not all smiles, nodding and fist bumps. Very few want to sit in probation interview rooms 1x per week.
DeleteI have to say that they are possibly four of the worst written documents I have had the misfortune of reading in a long-time. They are convoluted and purposefully hard to follow. I got bored reading them and it relates to my pay!!!!! It isn't inflation busting so another decrease in real terms wages. Nonetheless I fully anticipate that it will be voted through by people looking at the salary 3 years down the line.
ReplyDeleteIn reality Union action (as per the recent Arriva strike) resulted in an offer of 11.1% that year. So if we take the example of a Band 4 PO:
Current max wage: £39,821
Should we have a Union strong enough to negotiate a proper pay offer (call it 10% for the sake of argument).
New max wage would be: £ 43,803.1
Under this offer- 2 and a half years down the line the max is: £42,000
If the cost of living crisis continues as is, we are tied into a shambolic deal...
The current band 4 PO is actually £37,174 it increases to £38,829 from April 2022 under the pay deal which is a 3% at a time of double digit inflation.
DeleteIt then increases to £39,820.79 (4% rise) in OCTOBER 2023 plus £300 non consolidated payment. The max then increases to £41,082 in April 2024 and £42,000 in October 2024 (5.47% rise) if you pass the CBF.
I completely agree 8:59, proper strike action would get this sorted. It would have been sorted years ago but the unions are as useful as a chocolate teapot. The offer is insulting given it is projected inflation might hit 22% next year now! I will be looking for a new job.
ReplyDeleteHow many staff belong to a union and how many are prepared to strike. Fed up with losing money when most of my colleagues will sit and moan and not even in a union.
DeleteProbation is not the unionised workplace it used to be 40 years ago when the admin staff were mainly UNISON and the POs were Napo and managers GMB. Huge progress was made in H&S and pay was substantially increased. Napo was strong and listened to by the employers. Probation training had many routes into it resulting in people from various backgrounds. There was sponsored training leading to a qualification that opened the door to all sorts of professional jobs but people chose and committed themselves to probation. Probation officers and social workers were roughly on the same money. 33 days leave. 9-5 was the norm and Fridays was a relaxed day where - sometimes we decided as a team that we had done enough at 4pm and went down the pub. People worked hard but were not overwhelmed and overworked. Don’t people realise that the stress they are experiencing is shortening their lifespan and that they are literally working themselves to death? Vote ‘No’ to the pay offer and send a message. Work your proper hours and no more. 37 hours no more and switch off your phone and log out of your laptop. Take grievances against managers who try to force you to work extended hours unpaid. Remember the government considers UPW is a punishment. You don’t have to put up with it.
DeleteI found the document very hard to follow too. I can't work out if some of the details beyond the headline numbers are good or bad. Waiting for some analysis before I reach my decision on if I am voting yes or no.
ReplyDelete“The cost of living rises in the offer, which average 3.2% a year, fall very short of the current rate of inflation which was 12.3% in July 2022 (retail prices index/RPI). The joint union pay claim was for a cost-of-living rise of 3% plus RPI inflation for each year of the award. So, the cost-of-living rises in the pay offer fall way below what is needed for probation pay to keep up with inflation.”
Deletehttps://www.unison.org.uk/probation-service-3-year-pay-offer-2022-23-24/
Does it still take 40 years to get to the top of the scale ?
ReplyDelete4 to 5 years on most bands.
DeleteThis isn’t the case now - it will have taken me 7 years from todays announcement
DeleteYou also need to take CBF into consideration for getting to the top of your scale
DeleteSo in year one it’s pretty much a 2% rise for all, dressed up within the increment (we would get anyway) to look bigger. The October implementation is another blow. Is this the best the unions can get? By taking a neutral view, I assume they feel they cannot get any improvement and so would not encourage staff to take further action; not even working to 37 hours! What happened to the dispute from the nil pay offer from the year before. I was hoping for much more given comments from some senior leaders “it’s a good one”. Rises desperately needed now just to afford the cost of living, and attract new staff - not in year 3 (plus 6 months). Another real terms pay cut.
ReplyDeletedecided that we should leave it up to individual members to decide for themselves
ReplyDeleteOh dear Napo will now follow this appalling swerve of responsibility. A union is there to increase our basic pay and the 3 year deal will silence any advance as we know how unpredictable the future will be. Why pay stubs then when a union fails to recommend courses of potential action including joining a national campaign on low pay in public services and to coordinate planned actions. Unison showing how shit they are today.
Napo will no doubt be unable to offer anything different as they are looking to join the poa as things develop . I assume Mr Lawrence will want a new role in a bigger union so he can ask for more pay on his 100k pa. It is beyond a joke now.
I think we do need better NAPO leadership. Every time he gets interviewed it’s a train wreck. It’s as if he doesn’t understand Probation…
DeleteHe has never worked in probation but has carved out a career working for TUs. Napo has been a cash cow that keeps on giving. The TUC has propped him up. When he is attacked he says it is prejudice rather than his incompetence. For most members he is the devil they know and there are few contenders who want the poison chalice of leading a dying union.
DeleteNeutral stance ?! What’s the point in paying your subs - it’s a crap offer and they know it. NAPO and Unison are utterly weak and useless. I would happily strike tomorrow given the shit the organisation continues to subject us all to
ReplyDeleteUnison being utterly useless isn't a shocker, they've been big supporters of Sir Keir. If neither them or napo are going to advocate for workers, leave - no point pouring the little money you earn into a useless union. Start a new one, or join a better one, like Unite.
DeleteUnison taking a 'totally neutral' position on pay vote and their neutrality not upset despite pay offer possibly having discriminatory effects. A 'neutral' stance is pathetic. They don't explain why they are neutral, as though it's their prerogative, This isn't leadership, it's abdication of responsibility, cowardice or Animal Farm expediency - union officials with other agendas, perhaps. Ultimately, the message from Unison bosses is: we don't want to fight for pay.
DeleteNapo does not offer the employers deal but after failing with the other unions to exploit every advantage they were handed on a plate they are all recommending a piss poor offer to members and must hold a ballot to rubber stamp it - the members decide whether to accept a rotten offer or fight. If members vote to accept then I am leaving Napo because there is an even bigger fight ahead and getting a an improved pay deal in the present political shit storm should be a priority as other unions have realised. Lose this battle and there is no hope. Not that I have heard much support for other unions action in offices and no sense of solidarity against a morally corrupt and ineffective right wing government that hates the civil service just slightly more than it hates probation the lawyers and the police. Talking of the police professionally we are now more aligned to them than to the prison service that has done nothing but put probation down. If we cannot leverage a better deal when there are chronic staff shortages and a dodgy merger with the prison service on the cards then we might as well pack up our things and give up. Do some worthwhile work in youth justice.
ReplyDeleteIt is not a great pay deal by any measure so we must fight for a better one. If we don’t then we get what we deserve.
Members of recognised unions employed by the probation service can vote to reject the pay offer and if people see it for the pile of shit it is then reject reject reject. That is what I have done and that is the only honourable and self respecting thing to do. Why Napo is recommending such a thing without securing major concessions I do not know. Whinging and whining about leaders will do naff all as they win if they stay or go and anyone half decent contenders were seen off years ago.
The only action that will send a clear message is to reject the employers offer and insist it is a proper fight otherwise leave or put up and shut up.
“ It is not a great pay deal by any measure so we must fight for a better one. If we don’t then we get what we deserve.”
DeleteHear hear!
Who on earth would tie themselves into a three year deal when the economy and inflation is so volatile? It’s madness. Reject the offer, strike and negotiate on a yearly basis.
ReplyDeleteThat is hilarious, the fact "they" even feel this is an offer is an utter disgrace. As tight things are, I would happily strike, we deserve so much better, we actually deserve a fair deal...and this is not it.
ReplyDeleteAm I being totally blindsided by the fact we will not be getting anything for 2022? It reads that progression will only start in 2023. Event the charts and graphs suggest nothing will happen until 2023. Regardless an utter shit deal.
ReplyDeleteMost will get their usual increment this year which has increased by 2% in most cases - unless you are at the top of your scale which is no increment but the point increased by 3% in most cases.
DeleteUse the calculator it will tell you what your pay will be. From calculating my own pay it does take me to the next pay point.
DeleteOutside of the increment which we are contractually owed anyway, for this year it’s a 634 pound increase for me -that’s 2% and 52.83 a month - which will be taxed down to about 40 quid. It’s a slap in the face for the job we do, the responsibility and expectations set they set us. Staff retention will be worse - people in my office were already searching for new jobs, they’ll certainly be gone now.
ReplyDeleteOne of the “pluses” cited in taking a 3 year deal - we’ll get our increase “on time”. I’m sorry but shouldn’t this be a basic right anyway??? Can I now be late for paroms/isps? As apparently other departments can sit on their hands for months and create their own timelines.
By the way don’t potentially discount them making the competency based progression harder so fewer of us get to move up the pay scale. More paperwork/more arbitrary spreadsheet targets with less staff and more work. I wouldn’t put it past them!
The 3 year part of the deal is an absolute con. I knew as soon as it said there was multiple pdf’s to look at and staff briefings on teams that they’d complicate the whole thing —and try to trick is thinking we are getting more. It’s insulting - if inflation increases again over the next two years, tough luck -we are stuck .
Also shouldn’t as a collective staff unit - no matter were we are on the pay scale or band - we should all have the same percentage increase across the board?
I will be voting no
10 years without a pay rise. A police constable with no degree or qualifications gets paid £43000, more than a Band 6 Deputy Head of LDU. I think it is a diabolical pay deal and ties us in to 3% for the next 2 years when they are already saying that we are going to be having high inflation over the next couple of years. Look at your shopping lists 4pt milk was £1.09 6 months ago £1.55 yesterday. This pay deal is targeting newly recruited staff as it looks a good deal for them. I doubt they would have the same view if they had had to wait 15 years to get to the top of scale and no pay rise for 10 years. I like many others are currently in the red 140% but that will be changing next week. No more goodwill and I for one will be refusing to take on any more cases or work until I am below 110%.
ReplyDeleteAre you saying pay rises should only be given on condition of having a university degree, or that a degree educated (middle class) white collar professionals are better ?
DeleteI read that comment as highlighting the disparity between organisations doing how they value staff. Let’s not turn on each other please.
DeleteThe view of Napo’s Probation Negotiating Committee (PNC) on the Deal
ReplyDeletePNC members sent Napo’s negotiators back more than once to secure improvements to the deal. It is clear to us all at this point that there is no more scope to improve the offer through negotiation, because we trust HMPPS when they tell us that there are no further funds that can be used for pay. This means that the only avenue open to members to improve the offer would be a sustained period of intensive industrial action.
The Probation Service is facing a number of threats at the moment and our campaign to remove Probation from the Civil Service has never been more crucial. Members will need to decide whether this offer gives enough to settle pay for three years and enable us to focus our campaign efforts on the future of Probation or if they would be willing to participate in sustained industrial action on pay following the required legal balloting process.
This is the question that we now put to members, the power lies in your hands. You have a choice to make but it is clear that, should you reject this pay offer, you must commit to sustained action over time on pay.
Still not at the top of my pay band after 10 years as a PO
DeleteAnd if you were you’d get £300 next year. It’s a joke.
DeleteThe slides seem to contradict each other. Currently point 4 on band 4. Do you move up to point 5 from April 22 as shown in the colour slides or do you stay on point 4 of the band and move along point 4 for next 3 years. So confusing.
ReplyDeleteIt's a decent deal and the members will accept it.
ReplyDeleteExplain why you think it's a decent deal.
DeleteBecause I'm not naive enough to believe we were ever going to get a year on year inflation beating pay increase.
DeleteBecause we've been insulated against the job insecurity that came with covid and continued up our pay bands when many more lost their livelihoods.
Because we have poor union membership, low levels of activism and a wholly passive workforce that will not strike in a meaningful way, so we have no real leverage.
Because band 4 isn't poorly paid next to our market comparators and a £4k+ pay increase is likely to appeal to any of the band 4's I know.
Because so many band 2 and 3s already choose with their feet.
Because many members will have real concern that a new PM will impose a new pay freeze and there's a chance this'll get through before that happens.
None of that makes it a deal worth accepting
DeleteAll of that + £4.5k with few strings attached and with few similarly paid options outside of the service does
DeleteCarcass court officers currently have a salary band on 39k to 43.5k and unison and NAPO are demanding they receive 10% in year pay rise. In 2008 Cafcass was part of probation and was aligned with PO pay.
DeleteWhat happened?
Insulting offer, but wasnt expecting anything better. We should be directing our anger towards the employer and government thus insulting us. We can rage at the Unions of course, but they have a pretty poor hand to play, with a membership very unlikely to "commit to sustained action over time"
ReplyDeleteBoth probation employers and unions deserve our anger and disgust. One we serve, the other serves us. Both are treating us as cnuts.
DeleteShould save our money for a union that actually represents us, or start our own, like deliveroo drivers are doing and what Amazon workers recently did.
DeleteHow long is 'sustained'? Imagine if we did strike for 2 weeks, court would collapse, the whole case wouldn't manage. Hell even if we worked to rule lots would just not get done, it would have an impact.
ReplyDeleteWork to rule, for at least a month, would impact performance and that seems to be what the ministers care about.
DeleteWell I’ve voted not to accept - I don’t need to join a Teams meet to discuss before making my mind up
ReplyDeleteFrom Twitter:-
ReplyDelete"What utter fuckery of a #probationpaydeal is this?! I’m at the top of my band but they’re scrapping the bottom pay point and adding a “new” pay point at the top, to force people off the top of their band unless they engage with the CBF?! Outrageous manipulation of the workforce."
"To any Probation colleagues reading this. Please vote to reject this appalling pay offer. We slog our guts out with stripped back resources and ever increasing paper work; continue to try and help the people we work with, with next to nothing to help us and them to do so. None of us are asking for private sector wages, or an increase over the cost of living increase, just more than a pathetic 3%. Probation (employees and those on Probation) deserve better."
"The way they designed the pay calculator is a bit naughty. Up 7.1% this year and 13.7% next according to that, as i progress to top of band 4. What isn't explained on the calculator is that I'd receive most of that any way on the existing pay deal!"
"I'm NQ, just submitted an application form with local council. In no way does the pay reflect the stress and emotional toil this job entails. I need a work life balance."
Confuses me all of this. But as an Admin on the top of band 2 it means that I am being penalised for my service. It's geared to get in new recruits as the starting salary will be better. It's a no from me.
ReplyDeleteLike others commenting, I have voted to reject the offer.
ReplyDeleteWe've had a 1% pay rise over 10+ yrs, and inflation has averaged just over 2% per year. So we're already at least 20% down in real terms, and this offer over 3 years will see that be, based on expected inflation over 3 years, about another 15% to 20%.
If this isn't enough to galvanise people to take industrial action we will be screwed over again and again.
Nothing will happen zero collectivity most of my colleagues not union members and would jump out of window if told to , my advice leave before all the youth justice jobs are filled up
ReplyDeleteWe want a NOW pay deal not a 3 year fob off deal. Minimum 12% now, not 3% over 3 years. Where are our #probation service unions Napo, Unison and GMB hiding? We cannot accept unions “leave it up to individual members to decide”. Every member needs to start contacting their unions to demand representation and response now. Don’t let them fail us so easily @unisontheunion @napo_news @gmb_union
ReplyDeleteSo… the last pay deal was about removing scale points and now this one is to add more scale points…? Someone in the West Mids posted that a Police Constable with 7 years experience gets paid more than an SPO. The Probation salaries do not value staff, nor do they attract (or retain) staff. Every grade needs to move up a pay band if this pay offer is to be taken seriously, so CAs to band 3 and so on.
ReplyDeleteIn what world are we comparable to PC's? They work evenings, nights, weekends and bank holidays. They put their lives on the line routinely. Pointless comparison.
DeleteThink about the decisions that PSOs and POs make on a daily basis and consider equivalent levels of responsibility. Also, look at general rises that NAPO provided - Police staff, Health etc all better than Probation by 10 to 12 %. None of the comments are pointless on here unless you think we are being valued financially.
DeleteStrike action won’t work, but work to rule will. Missed deadlines = missed targets and that is what will get on the ministers radar. Strike action actually saves Probation money plus you have to catch up with your work the next day.
ReplyDeleteIf and a big if, a probation strike includes probation offices, court teams, approved premises, prison omus, unpaid work, then yes there would be an impact. And you don’t rearrange your work and plan to do it the next day either.
DeleteI agree. Work to rule. The service has always run on goodwill, that has now gone. If people work the hours they are paid to work and only those, the service would fall apart. I wouldn’t dare look at the hours I actually work and divide my pittance of a salary by them. I would be earning the minimum wage if that after 20 years!
DeleteThere would be zero impact. There's probably only 30-40% of probation staff still in unions and not all would be prepared to strike anyway. So the impact would be no different to the staffing levels in August and school holidays.
DeleteHow many people in your office went on strike for TR. I was probably 1 of 6 or 7 out of an office of 40 +. I can probably count on one hand the amount of staff that are in union from our office. There is no point in going on strike the work still gets done and it has no impact.
DeleteAgreed. Work to rule is the way to do this and over a sustained period.
DeleteBefore TR I had better mileage allowance and it got cut by 10p a mile in about 2015. The cost of fuel has doubled since then so our mileage rate should be more like £1 a mile these days.
ReplyDeletePolice Constables are probably better educated on the whole these days have more responsibility and more empathetic than your average criminology and PE graduate
ReplyDeleteYou must work in a brill Police Force area if that’s your experience. Tell us which one so we can all move there!
DeleteNo they’re not. The police are racist and sexist. That’s despite all the training they get. That’s why the London Police Chief had to resign. Rotten to the core.
DeleteThe calibre is a reflection of the salary. There are some great grads joining but there are also more now than ever who end up at a progression board and many don’t see Probation as a career, more-so something to do for a bit.
DeleteMost of the population don’t see joining the police as a career either. Racism and sexism isn’t good pr mate.
DeleteLike most roles, the Police have turned into the Police Academy films- anyone with a pulse. Many I see being interviewed can't string a sentence together. Police tend to be much more focused on law enforcement and aren't very empathetic or compassionate. This doesn't help the offender in the future from desisting from crime. I understand that Police Officers have a difficult role, but the government have made it much more so- just like Probation. Either it means something or it doesn't. The government just see the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
DeleteI’m voting no but I fear that many members may buckle and just accept what they are given, to which I wonder why they are even in the union.
ReplyDeleteThat’s because unions are weak and have given no steer. Their “we’ll let members decided” is so incompetent of unions.
DeleteReading through the comments, THIS is why this blog exists. Jim should be proud of the commitment made to keep this opportunity open; open for contributors to speak without fear. Sadly the employers, the govt, the unions are unlikely to take much notice. They've all got nicely remunerated roles to protect.
ReplyDeleteI work in a Northern police area and have lots of contact with new police Constables ,they are on the whole graduates with good degrees ( not criminology) and are brighter and more interesting than some daft young PQIP who thinks they are the police without the prerequisite rewards
ReplyDeleteWhat’s with the police infiltration! Personally I can’t stand police cultures. The quicker the police tools are removed from probation work the better.
DeleteWhat about the poor top brass not getting a pay rise over band 6. No one singing for them.
ReplyDeleteThey are getting a rise.
DeleteThey got monthly bonuses through covid for doing nothing while we did the work.
DeleteBand 6 were completely overlooked for the Covid bonus despite all the stuff the band c heads were rewarded for being done by the band 6 deps. Terrible treatment of staff.
DeleteSo many comments about staff not willing to take “prolonged industrial action”. That’s not what I am hearing - staff are hacked off with derisory offers and TUs making comments about staff not willing to strike! No wonder HMPPS think they can get away with this crap. It’s no from me and can’t wait to go in and do my 37 hours helping those coming through the door! Stuff the IT crap that helps no one!
ReplyDeleteFrom Twitter:-
ReplyDelete"When I qualified as a Probation Officer in 2004, I was 24. With my husband I easily got a mortgage for a 2 bed house in the south east. The wage was good, not fantastic, but good. I never expected that when I left in 2020 I'd be on broadly worse off than when I started!"
Thanks everyone for reading and commenting today. This site has received 3,230 visits as I head off to bed and that alone demonstrates the strength of feeling regarding the pay offer. Take care - I'll be up early to turn another page.
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/GMB_union/status/1565253843419648001?t=x0h3w67DQ9yjO3rUGiDRzg&s=19
ReplyDelete"GMB WIN : Windsor bin strike ends after one day with pay rise of up to 17%"
DeleteI’m in Napo and I’ve already voted No
ReplyDeleteFrom Twitter:-
ReplyDelete"I will strike, however I’m really aware that the only person to suffer will be me. Any work I don’t do on that day will just be waiting for me the next."
Those of us who have struck several times know the impact of a small group of eligible staff on a picket line seeing non union staff going into work and non union managers rearranging the work loads.....senior managers will suddenly get the freedom to relax targets and make other alterations in order to ensure that ‘where possible business as usual’ carries on, the usual argument that AP staff are needed to continue working will happen again as it has before, so without AP staff and court staff industrial action will not have the impact many think or hope and........winter is coming
ReplyDeleteThose on the picket line will never forgive and never forget watching Heather Munroe and Sonia Crozier/Flynn giggling as they sneaked up the back stairwell to avoid a picket line in Buckingham Palace Road London Probation Trust
DeleteThis is the link for details of the offer on the Napo website and to vote on the offer. What appears a little surprising is that no login details are required such as membership number and I notice this point has been highlighted on the secret Facebook page. https://www.napo.org.uk/three-year-pay-offer
ReplyDeleteMoJ/HMPPS are looking after their "excellent leaders"; god forbid they would have to prove themselves competent in any way shape or form:
Delete"Pay Points A - D
These bands do not have maximum pay points added so there will be no requirement for those at the top of the pay band to complete CBF."
CBF – excerpt from the CBF Full Guide
DeleteThe CBF is intended to capture the breadth and quality of your work, and to support you in moving up your pay bands. We expect the vast majority of you to be able to provide examples of competence easily, to move up your pay band each year, and to move up your entire pay band within five years.
Using the existing meetings between line managers and staff, the CBF aims to complement and enrich these conversations by adding competence to the discussion, rather than any additional meeting structures.
The CBF process does not measure or drive performance. Any performance issues will be dealt with separately through existing processes. While evidence gathered for other purposes including performance management could be used to contribute to the demonstration of competence for the CBF, the outcomes are entirely separate.
Staff will be eligible to use the CBF to progress one point within their pay band each year if they are:
In a role with NPS terms and conditions for a minimum of six months of the competence year (on or before 01 October);
Not already at the top of their pay band;
Up to date with all statutory and mandatory training that has been made available to them, as shown at Annex A;
Not subject to formal poor performance processes as set out in the Probation Instruction PI 13-2017 Managing Poor Performance; and
Not subject to a penalty of loss of increment/pay increase outcome as set out in the Probation Instruction PI 34-2014 Conduct & Discipline.
https://welcome-hub.hmppsintranet.org.uk/my-work/my-pay-and-benif/
DeleteNapo had best be super-diligent about who votes/tries to vote in case it invalidates the process.
DeleteAny non-union members ought to look at the "staff journeys" attachment on that page
DeleteAs far as I can work out anyone can vote in this ballot, union member or not, as many times as they like.
Delete"As far as I can work out anyone can vote in this ballot, union member or not, as many times as they like."
DeleteCan't be right, can it?
I'm quite sure it shouldn't be possible, but it is
DeleteThe bottom line as most Probation Officers work way above the 37 hours and much of it is 'unseen' as it doesn't go on Delius, unless it's a significant wage rise, everyone who works on the frontline for Probation is barely on minimum wage. But Amy keeps smiling, with her new promotion and her own increase in salary. I'm not sure how she does that with a straight face- or a supercilious smiley one.I agree with others: if it's about someone's pay, break it down into understandable chunks. This is all very convoluted and unclear and suggests that the powers that be have no respect for the work that's being done and merging Probation into the prison system- giving, amongst others, lazy POMs even more power to do nothing-seems to be the way that things are going. The government doesn't care- other than to eradicate what it has to spend public money on. More PoPs will commit more crime; the public won't be protected and there will be more damaged and mentally ill potential further offence time bombs in the future. Prevention- through support and supervision and enforcement- has to be better than continuing 'curing' after the fact.
ReplyDeletehttps://www-unison-org-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.unison.org.uk/news/2022/09/wealth-tax-could-fund-pay-rise-for-staff-providing-vital-services/amp/?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16620997491741&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.unison.org.uk%2Fnews%2F2022%2F09%2Fwealth-tax-could-fund-pay-rise-for-staff-providing-vital-services%2F
ReplyDelete'Getafix
A pay rise in line with inflation for workers providing essential services could be funded by tax increases for higher earners and the wealthy, says a report published today (Friday) by UNISON.
DeleteIndependent economic analysis commissioned by the union identifies tax changes that would raise £30.58bn a year to tackle the cost-of-living crisis, including funding for public sector pay increases that keep pace with price rises.
This includes £10.1bn that could be raised from an annual 1% tax on household wealth above £5m, including second homes, buy-to-let properties and pensions, says UNISON.
In addition, the report says a 1p increase in both the higher and additional rates of income tax would yield £1.65bn. Increasing capital gains tax rates to match those for income tax would raise a further £8bn.
The measures are set out in a new report by UNISON, Together we rise, which outlines the disproportionate impact of rising bills on low-paid public service workers. It puts forward a fully costed plan to ease the burden of the crisis for lower and middle-income households.
The report also highlights public backing for a decent pay rise for public sector workers.
Three in five people (60%) agree wages for public sector workers should be increased either in line with (41%) or above (19%) inflation, according to a poll by YouGov for UNISON of more than 3,000 adults in England, Wales and Scotland.
Of these, more than half (54%) thought this should be funded by a new 1% wealth tax proposed by UNISON on incomes exceeding £5 million.
A fair pay rise is central to the union’s national cost-of-living campaign. Also called Together we rise, the campaign calls for urgent action to tackle the economic crisis.
The next stage of the campaign will take UNISON’s demands to the incoming Prime Minister, setting out the case for a public sector pay rise for nurses, police community support officers, school cleaners and other public sector staff. The campaign also calls for a £15-an-hour minimum wage, which would take millions out of in-work poverty.
UNISON is urging the next PM to introduce a package of measures to protect low-paid workers against the pending recession and prevent public services losing yet more frontline staff.
In addition to a proper pay rise, solutions outlined in the report include the immediate reintroduction of the £20 a week uplift to universal credit payments which ministers removed last October, better access to affordable childcare and a review of HMRC mileage rates for staff who drive as part of their job.
The report findings also demonstrate that people feel the government is not doing enough to tackle the cost-of-living crisis.
More than a third (38%) of those polled by YouGov believe government measures to address the rising costs of living will not help them at all and the same percentage think they will help only slightly.
The disastrous effect of the cost-of-living crisis on public sector workers is laid bare in the report. More than 5,000 responded to a request from UNISON to share their experiences.
They have told of hardships such as doing without light at home because of rising energy bills, being unable to afford petrol to get to work and having to use buy-now-pay-later schemes to cover living costs.
Commenting on the report, UNISON general secretary Christina McAnea said: “The financial crisis is nothing short of a disaster for public sector workers.
“The real value of their income has plummeted, leaving them struggling to deal with rising prices. It’s clear that without help, many may never recover.
“The incoming Prime Minister must make it a priority to help people such as hospital porters, teaching assistants and other poorly paid public sector employees through the cost-of-living crisis.
“This isn’t the time for pay freezes or tax cuts. The government must put struggling families first and provide a wage rise in line with inflation or above.”
"This includes £10.1bn that could be raised from an annual 1% tax on household wealth above £5m,"
DeleteLiz Truss wants to cut taxes as a response to the cost of living crisis.
If a 1% increase equates to £10.1bn gain for the treasury, then surely a 1% decrease gifts those households with over £5m wealth £10.1bn?
It's clear where the Tories are targeting support.
'Getafix
Tories and labour are as bad as each other Getafix.
DeleteCouple of thoughts after reading the Napo email. They state we are unlikely to get a better deal, what evidence do we have that this is the best on offer? MOJ are bluffing, they don’t think we will reject the offer based on TU feedback. This is why unison haven’t nailed their colours to the mast. Also a work to rule would be more effective than striking. Refusing to do admin tasks, not taking cases when over 100%, sticking to your to roles and only working your hours etc. CJS would grind to a halt, especially with the prison and court issues. The last strike around TR wasn’t a failure despite what some would have you believe. The concerns raised were proved, staff were dignified and supportive of the action. Just because not everyone walked out the point was made. I would do it again. But let’s do what’s right for our profession, have some integrity, show our worth and be consistent. If we take this offer, Napo’s campaign regarding removing us from the civil service is a non starter because again the MOJ won’t believe we are strong enough or willing to go to the next step.
ReplyDeleteThe campaign needs to be a united one. Past sell by date Lawrence and councillor Lomas aren’t up to it but neither are leaders from GMB and UNISON. They need to ally themselves with others across the criminal justice system who have more clout. Lawrence has only flirted with the POA. Napo needs to be in talks with the lawyers and magistrates and get cross bench support. The lawyers have voted for industrial action for only the second time in their history. The current parliamentary campaign is amateur and the justice unions need to get their act together to bombard the government with concerns that current MoJ policy and future plans are going to cause huge problems as the public prepare to take to the streets over the cost of living crisis. Napo used to be strong re parliamentary work but failed to capitalise on the work done 10 years ago. If Truss is elected they will have a dim PM that they can exploit. I haven’t even mentioned the police but they are generally very unhappy with the very loathsome Priti Patel who is probably the worst Home Secretary ever.
DeleteAnon 07.58 how can you say the TR strike wasnt a failure. How many people lost jobs. Terms and conditions for crc staff were rubbish. Crc staff deskilled and deprofessionalised and paid less than the elite NPS.
DeleteWasn’t because of the strike. It was because Napo backed down, withdrew the judicial review and supported zero tribunals against the employer.
DeleteSo what do you think will happen if we go on strike now. A union is made up of members and people who represent us and Napo is a weak union on both counts.
DeleteAgree the TUs need to be stronger. If we hadn’t taken action over TR what would be saying now about those colleagues who lost their jobs? The CRCs treating the job with disdain- assuming anyone can do the job and a target driven environment. No one is on the right side of history by doing nothing. It’s that sort of attitude that makes the TU weak and allows Amy Rees to try and bully us into accepting this offer. I expect my TU (Napo) to reflect the views of the members not say they won’t be happy but will accept as we don’t think there is a strong enough feeling to tell the employer to bugger off! Those at the table with the employer are not doing enough and future campaigns will not stand up as they don’t have to gumption to stand our ground on our behalf. Local branches are being undermined left right and centre!
DeleteI've voted against . Nothing to lose, really. Work to rule more viable than strike
ReplyDeleteNo one in their right mind would vote to accept this appalling pay offer. There is money for electronic monitoring expansion, money for new prisons we shouldn’t need, money for justice digital vanity projects costing millions, money wasted on politically motivated privatisation fiascos but apparently no money to give staff a cost of living appropriate salary increase at a time when recruitment/retention attempts have failed.
DeleteAlso get rid of Amy Rees, Farrar and Coople. Abandon One HMPPS and all the new nameplates. Put Sonia Flynn, a qualified Probation Officer, in charge of probation as Director General. That’ll enable enough for a decent pay offer.
Deletesonia flynn has never done a single thing to protect probation staff, their pay or their terms+conditions; why on god's earth would you think that's a good idea?
Delete'23,16 - "There would be zero impact. There's probably only 30-40% of probation staff still in unions and not all would be prepared to strike anyway. So the impact would be no different to the staffing levels in August and school holidays'"
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you. The only way to sort this is for those members willing to strike to strike INDEFINITE. These are likely to be the most experienced staff, the same staff that are relied upon (and not paid ) to 'nurture" our new recruits.
If done properly to include probation staff at courts AP's UpW etc it would have an impact within weeks. it would gain public interest quickly which is what is needed
This is our opportunity, as has been said, if we dont stand up at this opportune moment of general unrest and be strong, we will continue to be treated with contempt .
Worth noting that if you join a union now you can still vote and actively fight for both a better pay deal by voting for industrial action and against the probation/prison service merger ie the end of probation. As a civil servant in the probation service you cannot engage in industrial action unless you are a union member. So if you are working in probation and not a union member you are supporting the employers re a crap pay deal and the end of the probation service. It is now or never.
ReplyDeleteand if like me an INDEFINTE strike places you in a food bank with your kids, you hold your head up high and tell anyone who will listen, you are a striking civil servant working in the criminal justice system who has had 1% over the last 12vyears
ReplyDeleteThere can be an indefinite probation strike, or at least a 3-5 day strike at a time, and unions can use all those subs they’ve collected from us for their minimal action over the past decade to remunerate us for pay lost.
DeleteI’ve also rejected the offer, I don’t need to go to any of the staff support sessions to understand how shit it is! Prepared to strike and work to rule.
ReplyDeleteHow many staff in you office will join you. How many even belong to a union.
DeleteProbation workers are not accepting this abysmal offer. The feeling on the frontline is pretty strong and angry. Pay freezes for a decade and then they offer a pittance at a time inflation and cost of living is hitting record levels.
ReplyDeleteI say get the media involved now and let them publicise that very soon probation offices, court services, unpaid work sites and probation hostels will be void of staff.
Who will care
DeleteWe pay the unions. They need to stand up now and say the probation pay offer is unacceptable and members will not support it. Stop being damp squibs.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDelete''I say get the media involved now and let them publicise that very soon probation offices, court services, unpaid work sites and probation hostels will be void of staff.''
Yes and the only way the media will get involved and thus the public is to have an INDEFINITE strike, it's the only way
If we do 3-5;days it won't work as
deadline type duties will be picked up by non union members new recruits ( for a gold star ) and union members that wont strike ( boiling) even ur manager will pick up the ISP to meet the deadline. Work to rule wont work for the same reasons ....
If we genuinely want to change things its INDEFINITE atrike or we are wasting our time, believe me
The average view of the public if we went on indefinite strike would be "sack them all and keep the offenders locked up in prison instead". We have to be realistic.
Delete@Anonymous2 September 2022 at 13:20
DeletePrecisely this. If we strike we inconvenience victims and ourselves. A single SFO whilst were striking won't play out well for us.
SFOs are the only thing Amy and ministers will listen to. We must reject this offer abd taje action to secure the long term future of the service as otherwise we continue our terminal decline in to a low pay low skill service.
DeleteStop this “it won’t work” and guilt-trip nonsense. Whether prisoners are kept locked up, probation hostels cannot function, lack of reports delay hearings or crimes take place, that will be the fault of Amy Rees and the government. These are things that are already happening and will happen more should this pay offer and merger go unchallenged.
DeleteI'm all for working to rule and nothing more
ReplyDeleteEven if it was legitimate action by dispute they will nail us all at the newly shafting competency based pay raise we are well cornered well done Napo.
Delete“Work to rule” means you continue to work for poor pay in a deteriorating probation service that disrespects you on a daily basis.
DeleteI really feel this should be all over the media now...its a disgrace yet the unions remain neutral and silent. The report by Unison exemplifies the dire situation public sector and families are in, yet despite this report they remain on the fence.... get a grip.
ReplyDeleteI think it's incredibly naive to think we'd get any sympathy from the public. Many would be disgusted at so many on here turning their nose up at a £4.5 k pay increase when they're getting nothing.
DeleteOver 3 years come on
DeleteNot really. We don’t need a crappy pay rise over 3 years. We need it now, when cost of living is rising. Many will understand that or do we need to post photos of staff with lights off or at food banks.
DeleteThe threat from Amy Rees is plain to see on the HMPPS intranet.
ReplyDelete“If this pay offer is rejected at ballot, we will revert to implementing a single year pay deal in line with the civil service pay remittance guidance for the 22/23 year”. … “we are confident that we have secured a good and fair pay offer for probation service staff”
Fcuk off Amy.
Anon 15:37 Could we have the complete wording from Amy please?
DeleteOh I read that today... and felt very annoyed.
DeleteTalk about emotional threatening blackmail
DeleteIt seems to me that the guidance states 2 to 3% in years 22/23 (which is what was offered). It goes on to state higher rises can be put forward for various reasons including staff shortages, transformation etc. so I feel disappointed that in this year of high inflation we were not offered more when PS fits those criteria; however the next two years guidance are not yet set, so we are gambling the guidance will offer less than we have been offered. Which is likely.
Deletehttps://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-service-pay-remit-guidance-2022-to-2023/civil-service-pay-remit-guidance-2022-to-2023.
Given that early action by PCS upon publication of the Civil Service Pay remittance guidance has had no effect 6 months on, I feel very cautious about not accepting this offer. Two or three days strike action can equal a loss equivalent to 1, 2 or 3% very quickly and having certainty about my income feels better at this stage than a gamble on a very rigid government shifting its position.
https://www.civilserviceworld.com/professions/article/civil-service-union-sets-out-plans-for-strike-vote-on-10-pay-claim.
https://www.pcs.org.uk/news-events/news/pcs-call-civil-service-trade-dispute-if-demands-not-met
If we accept crumbs then we’ll get crumbs. Then they’ll find a way to reduce that too, just as they froze Probation pay in the past and split us into NPS and CRC. I’m sure the merger won’t be pretty for our pay, contracts and working environments either. We don’t need a deal over 3 years we need it now. It’s now or never to stand up and be counted. Mark my words, HMPPS does not want images of striking Probation workers outside offices, courts, APs and prisons.
DeleteIf we were to accept this offer, and I don't think we should, then at least reverse the staging of the pay award so that we get (broadly) 5% in year 1, 4% in year 2 and 3% in year 3. We need the largest increase this year when we are facing a daunting cost of living crises.
ReplyDelete