tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post8723169020033082173..comments2024-03-28T17:27:56.016+00:00Comments on On Probation Blog: What Could Possibly Go Wrong?Jim Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-41990406344685133572013-08-06T06:56:16.835+01:002013-08-06T06:56:16.835+01:00netnipper,
I'm sure there will be perverse in...netnipper,<br /><br />I'm sure there will be perverse incentives at play and without doubt ugly stories will emerge. As you say, it will be the death knell of the humane element in all this.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />JimJim Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-71925645629689545072013-08-06T06:53:03.664+01:002013-08-06T06:53:03.664+01:00Darby,
You're right - I don't think it...Darby,<br /><br />You're right - I don't think it's even occurred to Grayling that in order to run smoothly, the consent of clients is required. He and the new outfits have a big surprise in store.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />JimJim Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-23977342105350931892013-08-05T22:05:33.793+01:002013-08-05T22:05:33.793+01:00I've put a few thoughts on the Napo discussion...I've put a few thoughts on the Napo discussion forum; hopefully drums up a bit of debate.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.napo2.org.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=274" rel="nofollow">Probation Privatisation: What do offenders think about it?</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-31518685681455863642013-08-05T19:33:32.523+01:002013-08-05T19:33:32.523+01:00A quick glance through recent editions of Inside T...A quick glance through recent editions of Inside Times merely reinforces probation's low profile in the thinking of offenders: there doesn't seem to be much concern there at the prospect of TR. Unless there's any requirement for sentence planning & record keeping with the low/medium cases - and I've not seen any yet - then recall/breach/SFO reviews seem pretty impossible. So less for offenders to worry about than with the current arrangements. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-69828054606500015182013-08-05T18:40:41.013+01:002013-08-05T18:40:41.013+01:00Agree. And why would anyone NOT want to discuss wi...Agree. And why would anyone NOT want to discuss with the offender an issue that is likely to have such a major impact on their lives?<br />I'm not sure if I would extend an invitation, but cleary discussing such wide scale changes should be an obligation, and not something to be hidden, and certainly there is nothing wrong in pointing out the existance of a petition. Isn't it in the end giving people the oppertunity of using decision making skills, and offering the abillity of taking positive proactive action in matters that impact on their lives.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-80653922441614657222013-08-05T18:08:54.205+01:002013-08-05T18:08:54.205+01:00Probation Trusts have omitted discussing TR with o...Probation Trusts have omitted discussing TR with offenders, and have surely not encouraged staff to discussed TR with offenders. I'm aware in a number of Trust's staff were advised against asking offenders to sign the 'Save Probation' e-petition. I have seen a 'UserVoice' response to TR, which probably had input from a controlled Trust 'consultation' with offenders. <br /><br />The problem is that the "public is at risk" argument does not wash with many offenders and can be offensive to some, BUT I expect there will be many more that believe and have experienced that Probation does rehabilitate and help them to change. This other side of the argument is what I discuss with offenders and I do believe it needs to be promoted more. Whether it's 'advise, assist befriend' or<br />'help, punish, change, control', first and foremost we provide a service of support to offenders, and we need to let them know that come 2015 this service will be lost to them and their families.<br /><br />We are clearly back into the "what are Napo and probation unions doing?" territory, as they should be demanding all members/staff discuss TR with all offenders and invite them to sign our e-petition - that's over 100,000 voices and signatures in no time. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-77746138645007506632013-08-05T16:37:25.939+01:002013-08-05T16:37:25.939+01:00I think the companies and agencies charged with th...I think the companies and agencies charged with the outsourcing of services may also have a major role to play yet.<br />Besides the risks of reputational damage there is also government pressure to constantly cut costs and delivery prices.<br />I don't think we are a long way off from these companies not wanting to touch government contracts with a barge pole. Too many are getting 'burned'.<br />Any probation staff thinking of a future in the private sector should consider that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-18905694809872533992013-08-05T15:40:37.412+01:002013-08-05T15:40:37.412+01:00The Jimmy Mubenga inquest and verdict of unlawful ...The Jimmy Mubenga inquest and verdict of unlawful killing is another blot on the reputation of G4S. The coroner made various criticisms of the staff and the working culture. The staff were apparently on zero hours contracts and could actually earn incentivised pay by keeping the detainee quiet on the plane. ("carpet karaoke" where detainees' heads are forced downwards to prevent them upsetting the passengers or causing the captain to abort the removal)<br /><br />That's what most disturbs about what may happen in probation. For all its faults I think probation does strive to be inclusive and non-discriminatory, humane. This culture could be the real long-term casualty of TR.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-72051173086998756962013-08-05T15:09:49.027+01:002013-08-05T15:09:49.027+01:00I think the thinking of Anonymous on 5 August 2013...I think the thinking of Anonymous on 5 August 2013 at 12:05 is exactly right and this is the sort of stuff that needs to get through to Cameron and the politician's who have not begun to consider the reputational damage they risk incurring.<br /><br />If they do consider it properly, they may call a halt rather than await the implosion. <br /><br />This also applies to the Labour Party in who my opinion need to do more than oppose outsourcing but, as Frances Crook of the Howard League has said "The important thing is for any incoming Govt to commit to abandon contracts & reinstate probation"<br /><br />https://twitter.com/francescrook/status/363331379506847745Andrew_S_Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115192522317353139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-22355148161290432402013-08-05T13:37:22.726+01:002013-08-05T13:37:22.726+01:00As Justice Secretary, Grayling should be aware tha...As Justice Secretary, Grayling should be aware that the success of these changes depends entirely on the full participation of those (‘clients’) affected. <br /><br />However, just as prisons can (and do) *only* run smoothly with the consent and cooperation of those locked up in them, these game-changing proposals will not work unless people are willing to, first agree to, then play and abide by the (new) rules. <br /><br />I don’t think he is (aware), and I don’t think they will.<br />Darbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-58341150532377388032013-08-05T12:05:00.580+01:002013-08-05T12:05:00.580+01:00I also believe that our service users have a signi...I also believe that our service users have a signifigant part to play in the TR agenda. I fully believe that the client is a variable that Grayling, very foolishly, has forgot to calculate. It may be that he feels that with the sale of the service, the state is also absolving itself of responsibillity of any fallout that may occur post privatisation. After all any legal challange is then likely to read, "Smith v Serco" or "Smith v G4S", and not "Smith v the State".<br />Unfortunately, the impact of the service user on the TR agenda will I feel, happen post privatisation.<br />However,there will be many and diverse legal challanges with regard to supervision by the private sector brought by the offender. Those that may be successful may bring signifigant changes to the contracts existing between the primes and state. The primes will almost certainly incur unforseen costs and complications, and seek to amend their contracts. Such problems were a big concern with the work programme. Whitehall however, no longer responsible, will not be moved on the matter.<br />With regard to the diversity of probable legal challanges there are many that you can only guess at for the moment. Some may oddly enough result from other interests the primes may hold.<br />For example, many huge organisations are currently expanding into the housing market. Certainly G4S and Serco are. There has been reports that the quality and maintenance of their property rentals are at best piss poor.<br />The situation must occur at some point where the offender supervising agency is also the offenders landlord. That is problematic.<br />"I only got breached because I didn't pay my rent".<br />"I was breached for threatening legal action over repairs you failed to do".<br />"You can't evict me, and then recall me because I had nowhere to live".<br />You can no doubt list a million other unforseen complaints. However, the role of the client I feel will be played out post privatisation.<br />Sorry if my thinkings a bit abstract here.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-46250822581663002432013-08-05T10:26:42.451+01:002013-08-05T10:26:42.451+01:00Excellent points - to a large extent this has alre...Excellent points - to a large extent this has already happened as a consequence of the 'automatic' conditional release recalls as I learnt way back between 1997 and 2002 when I was seconded to a prison.<br /><br />Part of the problem is the nominal shortening of time served in gaol with 50% remission, which is not understood by public, but is well understood by sentencers and no doubt a major factor in the increase in length of court announced sentences.<br /><br />We need to go back to 2/3rds remission, no automatic parole, a two tier parole system, full assessments for longer sentenced prisoners and shorter localised assessments for the rest, with the minimum time to be served on parole, probably 6 months, as it was before ACR was introduced.<br /><br />As for the remainder something more than VAC but not as is proposed, a full 12 months supervision for every one sentenced to under 12 months, with an automated virtual automatic recall system which as Jim says will 'silt' up the gaols,<br /><br />Statutory supervision, with possible recall via a Court decision does seem reasonable, for the unserved 1/3 portion of the prison sentence, for those who do not get parole. <br /><br />Maybe such a system would also work for the under 12 months cases - say with a minimum of three months supervision, I think that is how the old YP and DC licences worked, with a minimum period whatever the sentence.<br /><br />Have you seem the Guardian's discussion about outsourcing today, initially with the writer who was trying to flog a book, but who nonetheless made some good points which I have tried to direct to a few folk via Twitter as well as commenting myself?<br /><br />http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/05/antony-loewenstein-vulture-capitalism?commentpage=1<br /><br /><br />Andrew_S_Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115192522317353139noreply@blogger.com