tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post6796710259150493202..comments2024-03-28T23:10:52.046+00:00Comments on On Probation Blog: General Secretary Election 18Jim Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-13300294540607951572018-06-15T12:11:00.090+01:002018-06-15T12:11:00.090+01:00I guess proof is in the pudding. I've looked ...I guess proof is in the pudding. I've looked and I've looked, cannot see any POA successes in last 10 years except when MR was Chair...'having us on'...maybe not!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-68677579005666790882018-06-14T06:20:00.835+01:002018-06-14T06:20:00.835+01:00Well said. Corbyn may preserve trade unionism - I ...Well said. Corbyn may preserve trade unionism - I fear that leaning much more towards Mrs May's small statist supporters will weaken it even further.<br /><br />What was it Thatcher said about Tony Blair being her most important legacy - or how were folk deceived?Andrew_S_Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115192522317353139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-35330474019716536522018-06-14T06:16:13.570+01:002018-06-14T06:16:13.570+01:00Interesting comment - I was in a Twitter dispute w...Interesting comment - I was in a Twitter dispute with someone proclaiming the benefits to the concept of probation of taking part in the Probation Institute's July conference.<br /><br />Is that what is needed?<br /><br />I argued that maybe we needed the PI but back in 1992 when Napo gave up campaigning to preserve the original concept of the English & Welsh probation system which was lost when the status of the probation order was changed with the implementation of the CJA 1991 and probation officers moved further away from being officers of the court?Andrew_S_Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115192522317353139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-77291824694341994572018-06-14T06:10:12.524+01:002018-06-14T06:10:12.524+01:00But the clue to what a trades union is and can do ...But the clue to what a trades union is and can do is in the word union.<br /><br />That Napo is in a terrible state is due in part to my actions and in-actions along with those of every other member.<br /><br />Were I still in employment I would still need the legal protections that trades union membership continues to provide to workers in the United Kingdom otherwise I would need to rely on my own ability to negotiate in all occupational matters and of the wider judiciary to protect me in conflict<br /><br />However bad is a particular trade union, giving up membership involves giving up protections which in my case ultimately my wife also benefited from.Andrew_S_Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115192522317353139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-10778325592818272612018-06-13T21:24:45.144+01:002018-06-13T21:24:45.144+01:0019:51 - Check under your bed tonight for Reds. Qui...19:51 - Check under your bed tonight for Reds. Quite pathetic to be knee-jerk about socialism. This is about democratic socialism, not Bolshevism. Where has the right-wing leadership of Napo got us in recent years? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-12784929453328730672018-06-13T21:12:15.544+01:002018-06-13T21:12:15.544+01:00Do we need a politically biased Union or an intere...Do we need a politically biased Union or an interest group come lobby for the concept of Probation? Terms and conditions represent the relative importance of the profession in the minds of Parliament and the public. I still think the case for Probation is not being made. Granted getting media interest in the concept at a time of Trump and Brexit must be difficult. Having said that, the case for Probation is compelling. A PR campaign is required. Can NAPO deliver on this? I don't think they can unless they choose strategic alliances to this end. The choice for NAPO GS has been disappointing in this respect. We need vision and some vim. Not sure either candidate has communicated on this level. Both IL and MR have spouted there vim credentials. Some vision please!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-22877378905211810032018-06-13T21:01:41.213+01:002018-06-13T21:01:41.213+01:00As the ballot for general secretary of probation a...As the ballot for general secretary of probation and family court union Napo gets underway, members will recognise that change is needed at the top to restore confidence and lead the fightback.<br /><br />Taking up the challenge is Mike Rolfe, former chair of the POA, the prison, correctional and secure psychiatric workers' union.<br /><br />Mike made headlines during the 2016 prisons crisis by risking imprisonment himself by threatening strike action in defence of his members whose safety was at risk. His stand helped secure a reversal of staff cuts and a pay deal that broke the Tory government's pay cap.<br /><br />Probation and family court workers in England, Wales and Northern Ireland have suffered four years of crippling workloads, staff shortages and deteriorating conditions.<br /><br />The chaotic part-privatisation of probation services has taken what was once a highly motivated profession and transformed it into a demoralised and de-skilled workforce, spread across 24 separate companies.<br /><br />Our union, Napo, has survived. But it is struggling to make a significant difference to the working lives of members who have had pay frozen for nine years, and are now expected to pay more and work longer for pensions that are worth less.<br /><br />Mike is a Corbyn supporter and stood for Labour in last year's general election. He has previously stood for the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition (TUSC). His election would undoubtedly give confidence to activists who have been battered relentlessly as they struggle to represent members with dwindling resources.<br /><br />Mike promises to defend the primary role of the branch as the democratic lifeblood of the union against an increasingly corporate model of organisation. In five years, the incumbent, Ian Lawrence, has been unable to stop a decline in membership, and it is time for him to step aside.<br /><br />Ballot papers must be returned by Thursday 28 June.Jim Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-19853652476016309962018-06-13T19:51:17.305+01:002018-06-13T19:51:17.305+01:00I see what all this is about now. Should we hand o...I see what all this is about now. Should we hand over control of our union to the Socialist Workers Party? Perhaps the candidate has not been truly honest with us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-53548210702084054162018-06-13T19:17:23.019+01:002018-06-13T19:17:23.019+01:00i'm cancelling NAPO subs this month. waste of...i'm cancelling NAPO subs this month. waste of time, no internal emails from branch officer about internal going ons, a recent branch meeting after work was also a waste of time due to guest speakers taking up the bulk of time with....yep General Secretary stuff! Working NPS/CRC case carriers do not care about this - it makes not one jot of difference to us and now this blog has been infested with the topic for days on end. No, I don't need to give NAPO £20 per month I'll keep it myself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-45406264506767767752018-06-13T18:53:27.010+01:002018-06-13T18:53:27.010+01:00Just spotted this article. It may help to inform d...Just spotted this article. It may help to inform debate on GS election.<br /><br />http://m.socialistparty.org.uk/issue/999/27491/13-06-2018/vote-mike-rolfe-for-napo-general-secretary<br /><br />'Getafix Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-80264084961399551372018-06-13T17:56:04.362+01:002018-06-13T17:56:04.362+01:0012:31: It would help if you could be clearer in ma...12:31: It would help if you could be clearer in making your allegations about who has supposedly been protected by Jim despite their immaturity and incompetence. I read this blog regularly and I cannot understand what you're driving at. What we should all do, I suggest, is to encourage as many members as we can to consider the issues: think about the two candidates, understand that you are being asked to vote because you are part of the collective paymaster. Take the trouble to participate in the ballot. We will never know for certain whether the weakness of Napo ( weakness – lack of industrial muscle is assessed by levels of participation, ie solidarity) , emboldened the MoJ and the private companies to behave disdainfully, but it's a good counter-factual to think that they would not have got away with so much if they had perceived a strong union ready to fight its corner. If members do not participate, at the very least by casting a vote, then Napo's slide towards extinction will become more assured. It's naïve to see a union as an 'insurance policy' like the AA in the event of a breakdown. Only a strong union can insure and protect you against unfair treatment and get you better wages – and a union can only be strong if it's members have backbone and collectively care about their destiny.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-78324461284912999242018-06-13T12:31:05.637+01:002018-06-13T12:31:05.637+01:00Yes it does Jim agreed but you have inadvertently ...Yes it does Jim agreed but you have inadvertently protected the incompetent in previous misjudged support for inexperience and immaturity of leadership. Elected leadership is said to lack direction have disabled members in the NEC been collusive with the NPS. GS blaming is only as good as the officers group and what they have accepted on memberships behalf. The problem is not solely on the GS Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-10504489176993635672018-06-13T12:18:34.973+01:002018-06-13T12:18:34.973+01:004 Re-election
a) If you do not wish to stand for r...4 Re-election<br />a) If you do not wish to stand for re-election your employment will end at<br />the completion of the contract (unless an alternative date is agreed<br />between yourself and Napo). You will not be entitled to severance<br />pay.<br />b) If you wish to stand for re-election but are not nominated under the<br />rules your employment will end at the completion of the contact (unless<br />an alternative date is agreed between yourself and Napo) and you will<br />be entitled to six months severance pay from the date employment<br />ends.<br />c) If you stand for re-election but are not elected your employment will<br />end at the completion of the contract (unless an alternative date is<br />agreed between yourself and Napo) and you will be entitled to two<br />years severance pay from the date employment ends.<br /><br /><br />“Personally I think it would be abhorrent to offer such severance pay as some have suggested within previous blogs in any fixed term contract and I would not expect to receive any such pay in similar circumstances, but as I say my information is that this is not the case. I’m sure that members would be able to confirm or deny this position quite simply by requesting an answer from the Napo NEC or via FOI as I have sought to do.”<br /><br />You should realise an FOI is applicable ONLY to public bodies. Yet again detail is important NAPO is a union NOT a public body. This is basic and you should not be making these errors the information you seek is published above. <br /><br />It is clear you have avoided any response on your personal skill sets and union training or qualifications. TUC courses or POA course Diplomas, Employment law ,equalities, OH and safety, contemporary trade unions as a few examples. <br /><br />It matters little to most voters who is in charge on a daily basis but what we do need is a GS who is able and appropriately skilled to demonstrate their competence. You have not done that in these exchanges despite reasonable requests and that makes you similar to the avoidance tactics the current GS uses. No issue with that but as you are probably more like for like why would voters see the change worthy of another 225K costs to elect you. That is equation. You need to demonstrate added value. <br /><br />“My record in this area speaks for itself and within the last 5 years from NEC area rep to National Chair I was able to bring about positive changes for members” <br />The period that you were the POA chair was incredibly short. You pay no regard to the POA full time officers and their parts in any campaign success. Would seriously have voters believe you became chair served less than a full year and was the sole agent for the success you claim? <br />Your having us on. Good luck with that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-28434447620461442352018-06-13T12:18:07.541+01:002018-06-13T12:18:07.541+01:00Thanks for the responses MR although I had not wan...Thanks for the responses MR although I had not wanted to get into continued exchange there are a few things worthy of a response. It is important to use terms and language carefully in the role of GS and the term vilify does not help dialogue. If the posters here have abused you or IL perhaps you could have them withdrawn although I have not seen any? <br /><br />It is widely accepted many of NAPOs membership would want to meet you first hand and yet this process does not provide facilities in real terms. Largely because the lessons learned cannot be assessed until the election ends. The fundamental point, despite the previous contest for the role similar rules were in place although, presiding chairs have managed to confuse this process. Once the election is decided it is doubtful anyone will move to change the rules. <br /><br />I would not presume that readers of this blog do not read postings in detail. Most Probation Officers are generally well read in relation to detail and cases that will have implications. All the supporting staff have detail responsibilities too none would like to think you are dismissing their ability to read understand interpret and consider properly. <br /> <br />Straight talking is welcome although it has not been a feature of the probation world. Accuracy is important however and your next point <br /><br />“Perhaps towards the end of my blog last night I should have provided more detail in my final paragraph with regards to the departure of any incumbent GS, but for a couple of reasons I felt a simple explanation would suffice. “ <br /><br />Detail would help what you actually achieved was to post hearsay. As a prospective GS it could not be well received to read misguided responses. Clearly you sought to verify such an issue. To speak on matters of partial detail and from a third party NEC representative is just not GS level skill.<br /> <br />“I had in fact sought clarification of the contractual position of the incumbent GS from a Napo NEC source before submitting that post last night and I was informed that in this instance the contract expires with no form of compensation, redundancy or indeed severance pay” <br /><br />Again Mike you have placed your trust and your reputation in an NEC source. The NEC representative will be speaking on matters they have no direct first hand knowledge. It is certainly not appropriate for them to be providing you this sort of information either. Effectively embroiling you into the wrong debate and done you down. However it is a costly venture referring to union issues in the wrong debate. The costs is your reputational risk. The employers enjoy the side show and the ripple outward reflect badly. Inwardly looking centric Vice Chairs have not at any stage criticised or held to account the current GS in his performance. Instead they have supported and maintained the status quo. You need better more able sources for your facts. Your reliance on the information you received is not consistent with your claim of paying “great attention to detail “ <br /><br />For clarity, we are clear the actual contractual NAPO obligation for the GS position. Is here and not the opinion of the wrong advice you have taken from the NEC rep. Currently section c applies. <br /><br /> <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-1886699983346420282018-06-13T11:06:59.311+01:002018-06-13T11:06:59.311+01:00Anon 10:55 Absolutely spot on and why Napo needs a...Anon 10:55 Absolutely spot on and why Napo needs a root and branch shake-up.Jim Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-6865059553348887712018-06-13T11:05:12.096+01:002018-06-13T11:05:12.096+01:00Thanks for that - we'd better cover it in a de...Thanks for that - we'd better cover it in a dedicated blog post. It's of concern that the MoJ have changed their mind regarding handing SFO investigations to HMIP.Jim Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-88834963858101680212018-06-13T10:55:42.741+01:002018-06-13T10:55:42.741+01:00It broke in the Manchester Evening News, but this ...It broke in the Manchester Evening News, but this in the Mail gives slightly more info.<br /><br />http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5834903/Father-man-stabbed-death-slams-authorities-released-vicious-killer-prison-early.html<br /><br />'Getafix Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-61255373787224243022018-06-13T10:55:41.919+01:002018-06-13T10:55:41.919+01:00Members know about IL and I hope many hear about M...Members know about IL and I hope many hear about MR. Given the leadership and figurehead role of a general secretary of a union, it is weird that this election may pass under the radar of most members. Here was a golden opportunity to spark some debate between the candidates that may have provoked some member engagement. The incumbent must believe he has nothing to gain by setting out his vision for the next five years and as most incumbents also like to stand by their record of achievements, IL would know he'd be on a hiding to nothing. But the fault here does not lie with the candidates - it lies with the employing authority, the NEC, acting on behalf of the membership who fund the wages. Normally people like to know where their money goes and whether they are getting the best value. As turnout is likely to be low, it would seem members don't mind how their subscriptions are spent. The NEC should be hammering home the importance of voting and making it clear to members that they should not waste their money by not voting. Why does the NEC sit on its hands. Nothing stops the Co-Chairs from being proactive in getting the vote out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-8059629018007570902018-06-13T10:47:28.074+01:002018-06-13T10:47:28.074+01:00"events at the coroners Court in Manchester y..."events at the coroners Court in Manchester yesterday" - can you elucidate please 'GetafixJim Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-53635547672245388912018-06-13T10:36:49.149+01:002018-06-13T10:36:49.149+01:00MR makes the point that it's unrealistic to ex...MR makes the point that it's unrealistic to expect any incoming GS to hit the ground running. I think that is a fair point to make.<br />But I'm minded that CRCs are already in discussion with the MoJ about continuing with their contracts, and the end of June has been quoted as when their position will be made clearer.<br />Coupled with events at the coroners Court in Manchester yesterday it possible that probation services could be attracting the same level of media attention as prisons did last year in the next month or so. <br />Whether its fair or not, any incoming GS may have no option then to hit the ground running. <br /><br />'Getafix <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-11873117331736623392018-06-13T10:11:37.601+01:002018-06-13T10:11:37.601+01:00 ... in addition, I was warming to MR until his re... ... in addition, I was warming to MR until his recent submission and responses. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-12916069093198764442018-06-13T10:10:38.516+01:002018-06-13T10:10:38.516+01:00But he was employed by another union who were appa...But he was employed by another union who were apparently not sorry to see him move on. Jim Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-23851643938933088872018-06-13T10:07:16.662+01:002018-06-13T10:07:16.662+01:00IL may never have been a PO, but he was also not e...IL may never have been a PO, but he was also not employed by the prison, police or any other organisation that is absorbing probation with the MoJ’s blessing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-79266224484337785512018-06-13T09:00:12.068+01:002018-06-13T09:00:12.068+01:00From todays blog by Ian Lawrence:-
Its Election T...From todays blog by Ian Lawrence:-<br /><br />Its Election Time<br /><br />Members will by now have received ballot papers for the election for the General Secretary position. This is not the place for engaging in discussion beyond saying that both candidates are accessible via their preferred social media accounts, and that both candidates will be hoping that Napo members take part in this important ballot.Jim Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-79167923033673609032018-06-13T07:59:08.320+01:002018-06-13T07:59:08.320+01:0007:40 your post does not scan well.
Il has not bee...07:40 your post does not scan well.<br />Il has not been effective and change is needed.............but you then argue against change on the basis of the contenders previous employment.<br />I think IL has blown it by refusing to engage with the membership and from memory, I don’t believe he was ever a P.O.<br />The track record of the leadership for the past five years is appalling and whatever our hopes, dreams and wishes, we have a choice of two candidates, the incumbent or the contender.<br />We have seen one of them in (in)action and the other is untested but seems to be chomping at the bit.<br />I know where I stand, but you pays your money and takes your chances!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com