tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post5837858412459545138..comments2024-03-28T23:10:52.046+00:00Comments on On Probation Blog: Latest From Napo 56 Jim Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-53127516951516130642014-12-25T16:42:06.171+00:002014-12-25T16:42:06.171+00:00The fact is there is no reasonable debate and no f...The fact is there is no reasonable debate and no fair process for members to be part of. Those in positions of power have disregarded, shut down, isolated alternative voices. The approach from my experience has been 'we know better' and NAPO have chosen to shake the hand with the devil for reasons if self interest. I can think of a number of examples to evidence this. When a victim in DV starts to resist and fights bk the perp criticises her for complaining i.e "there you go complaining again and having a go". This is what we are witnessing here. Paul Senior would have had more integrity defending the 'association' part of NAPO then supporting the probation institute funded by the MOJ. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-38512374971243121592014-12-25T16:08:43.853+00:002014-12-25T16:08:43.853+00:00I certainly wouldn't want things to go without...I certainly wouldn't want things to go without comment but we must always remember that those we choose to criticise are human beings not automatons. There is a difference between stating your point passionately and repeatedly having a go to the point of causing offence. f someone is seeking to persuade another person to think differently then name calling and harsh words are usually ineffective. Witness the vitriol poured on poor Professor Pal Senior when he ventured to support the Probation Institute on this Blog. He has supported probation for years and was doing a lot for the campaign however after a barrage of criticism from some regular contributors on here I have heard very little from him since. He can defend himself but it must have been unpleasant to be heckled rather than engaged in reasonable debate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-65275176861933150022014-12-25T09:11:40.827+00:002014-12-25T09:11:40.827+00:00Well said debs. Wonderfully put.Well said debs. Wonderfully put.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-78369004028599214702014-12-24T23:41:37.032+00:002014-12-24T23:41:37.032+00:00Sometimes tho', there is a place for, if not b...Sometimes tho', there is a place for, if not bitterness, at least the timely reminder that all is not good and some decisions may require further scrutiny and reflection, and sometimes people should be held to account. How many times have you heard it said in your office 'we are where we are', as if yesterdays decision (however poor, misguided or downright dangerous) must just be sucked up and accepted without comment as the 'change machine' rolls relentlessly on. Friend, you may believe it prudent to just go with the flow, but some of us are either unwilling or unable to just 'let it be', so we keep banging that drum, even if we sound out of step with the status quo and bitter. <br />DebAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-89287750492781338092014-12-24T21:49:58.432+00:002014-12-24T21:49:58.432+00:00Well said 20:56 Totally in agreement with 09:33 to...Well said 20:56 Totally in agreement with 09:33 too. SG starting to sound bitter to my ear without adding much to the discussion Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-42842652565047460092014-12-24T21:41:23.529+00:002014-12-24T21:41:23.529+00:0020:50 A combination there of Napo and management b...20:50 A combination there of Napo and management bashing in one. How original and refreshing- not. It is easy to say others are talking nonsense without coming up without engaging in the bothersome thinking and effort required to come up with a plausible or constructive solution. Perhaps you would like to prove me wrong by kindly outlining in response what you would have done differently and tell us what you did from your armchair to stop the tide coming in. You remind me a bit of the guy at my local who props up the bar saying that everything is crap and everybody is talking rubbish (except him) but makes no effort and has no clue when it comes to doing something about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-24558180251486933682014-12-24T21:29:03.630+00:002014-12-24T21:29:03.630+00:0012;23 Welcome to Napo's world where whatever y...12;23 Welcome to Napo's world where whatever you say someone will find it offensive. Sorry to hear that you are leaving and appreciate what you are saying about your colleagues leaving too. Napo has suffered a series of severe setbacks and is down but not out. Most active members are focused on the job in hand and we realise we cannot turn back the clock. Happy that members like Jim are giving us all food for thought. Trying to move forward as positively as we can locally. Good luck and try to have a good XmasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-19985080182649001642014-12-24T21:13:56.427+00:002014-12-24T21:13:56.427+00:0023:07 Engaging with new employers and starting a d...23:07 Engaging with new employers and starting a dialogue on behalf of members is what unions do and what Grayling personally refused to do calling Napo names. As a trade unionist I may well have different views on many matters to employers but there is an agreed process and structure and rules of engagement that has been established and we need to use this structure to talk to the new players. If they refuse then we lodge a dispute etc In answer to your possibly loaded question..... I am not currently a manager and have no wish to be one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-65196371732085876562014-12-24T20:56:30.229+00:002014-12-24T20:56:30.229+00:00I wholly agree Anon 09.33, I tend to think those r...I wholly agree Anon 09.33, I tend to think those responsible for such vitriol must lack for an audience in their workplace. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-71845179240590074202014-12-24T20:50:50.249+00:002014-12-24T20:50:50.249+00:00clearly you have been brainwashed or either worse ...clearly you have been brainwashed or either worse in a managerial position or aspiring to become a manager hence the reason why you talking nonsense. in reading your comments I can see it's people like you who have contributed to the destruction of probation. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-20458375965541783072014-12-24T12:39:18.361+00:002014-12-24T12:39:18.361+00:00"BTW, I got my p45 yesterday after 20 plus ye..."BTW, I got my p45 yesterday after 20 plus years and come next Wed, there will not be a single person left in my office who was there 12 months ago."<br /><br />So very, very sad - take care my friend and best wishes for the future.<br /><br />JimJim Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-41448087489430319022014-12-24T12:23:35.426+00:002014-12-24T12:23:35.426+00:00Hi, I was being reflective, when I wrote it and th...Hi, I was being reflective, when I wrote it and think it is a very good analogy. BTW, I got my p45 yesterday after 20 plus years and come next Wed, there will not be a single person left in my office who was there 12 months ago. So, I stick by it and to the person who found it 'offensive', I can only imagine TR left you unscathed. Pfft.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-79613722575136999312014-12-24T09:33:02.505+00:002014-12-24T09:33:02.505+00:00What interests me is the unending stream of vitrio...What interests me is the unending stream of vitriol from SG targeted at NAPO with not much to contribute to any of the other discussions. All this talk of corruption is laughable. The idea that NAPO officers have their own agenda which is at odds with the members is perverse as there are bound to be differing perspectives (as every strike reveals). It's a democracy and has room for a range of views. What matters is the voting and subsequent action. That's what keeps things running. NAPO has done a lot to assuage the gainsayers but there comes a point where the conspiracy theorists have to be left to their own obsessions and work needs to continue in the context as it presents itself. Grayling has given an undertaking to address concerns raised; it is a matter of record. Whether this was because of the abandoned JR or in spite of it is a moot point. I think the membership recognises this The bidders will hold him to account as much as the unions will seek to and if he fails to deliver the changes to the NPS and Prisons that are required to make it work, the bidders will not accept criticism for not delivering at their end. There is nothing to be gained by compromising our relationship with Interserve et al from the off and everything to be gained. In trade unions, you negotiate with your employer, not their commissioner. Opposition to TR has to take a different form now. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-91499237509089098662014-12-24T08:48:17.202+00:002014-12-24T08:48:17.202+00:00Bet that sounded witty in your head. Then you had ...Bet that sounded witty in your head. Then you had to go and write it down....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-5193576122814475842014-12-24T07:18:32.400+00:002014-12-24T07:18:32.400+00:00I see nothing snide and sneering. It's fair co...I see nothing snide and sneering. It's fair comment about Napo's dissembling and their humble apologies. We are not concerned with typing errors here – union officials and officers, presumably by secret ballot, thought it was a good idea to lead the membership up the garden path. When ordinary mortals screw up, they usually face disciplinary action, but higher up the chain, errors are too easily excused. What occurred must be in breach of Napo's code of conduct.<br /><br />Yes, I know they have apologised and cited their extenuating circumstances – they were under pressure, which is a daily experience on the frontline. But their mea culpa is weak: It should be stated clearly that the 'concessions' were fictions. <br /><br />So it's actually an adaptive response to become very cynical and references to Animal Farm are apt.<br /><br />Netnippernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-75091383676895946742014-12-24T03:13:53.530+00:002014-12-24T03:13:53.530+00:00Shame on you 00:42, that is offensive.
To all coll...Shame on you 00:42, that is offensive.<br />To all colleagues prepared to resist TR for the integrity of our profession and the safety of our community, THANK YOU.<br />a POAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-60061825488301361862014-12-24T00:42:17.589+00:002014-12-24T00:42:17.589+00:00There are pro Napo posters on this blog who remind...There are pro Napo posters on this blog who remind me of those Japanese soldiers, still fighting the war in isolation, on Pacific islands, when it ended years before. Only difference is the Japanese put up a fight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-54589298955179857662014-12-24T00:19:44.223+00:002014-12-24T00:19:44.223+00:00The one thing I find hard in this process is that ...The one thing I find hard in this process is that I passionately believe in a public sector probation service. Not split and not contracted out. But from an employee perspective, let's face it, we are rightly dubious of the private sector, but our public masters treat us with absolute contempt in every possible way. Thankfully I have found my escape route and 2015 will end my career as a probation officer. What a shame.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-52650196906424741512014-12-24T00:19:24.035+00:002014-12-24T00:19:24.035+00:00Is that Ian?Is that Ian?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-89015045181941949092014-12-23T23:39:13.241+00:002014-12-23T23:39:13.241+00:00Perhaphs it might be because not all people take t...Perhaphs it might be because not all people take the same snide and sneering view as you pla. There is one of you in virtually every office, standing back and sneering but not actually getting involved.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-35216251294574997082014-12-23T23:24:47.949+00:002014-12-23T23:24:47.949+00:00No. There were no changes to terms and conditions....No. There were no changes to terms and conditions. They are still on same terms aa when they left London Probation. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-64495574299338134362014-12-23T23:07:24.978+00:002014-12-23T23:07:24.978+00:002140, from a manager by any chance2140, from a manager by any chanceAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10403486263514997257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-34506811030418659352014-12-23T23:05:06.851+00:002014-12-23T23:05:06.851+00:00Yes but do you know what they have given up as a r...Yes but do you know what they have given up as a result....there will be amendments to terms and conditions ie, sick pay, holiday entitlement you can be certain...It's a sweetener, nothing more!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10403486263514997257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-39589299688508219922014-12-23T22:18:14.636+00:002014-12-23T22:18:14.636+00:00Just to respond to a point from several recent blo...Just to respond to a point from several recent blogs. Serco Community Payback staff have got a 3% payrise already paid to them and we are going to be stuck with 0%. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-55532558326915783422014-12-23T22:12:17.051+00:002014-12-23T22:12:17.051+00:00Napo need to engage with the employer to protect t...Napo need to engage with the employer to protect their members, especially when TR fails as inevitably it will, though no doubt 'failure' depending on who is in government will be dressed up as something else - such as a step on a longer road.<br /><br />The interesting issue is whether England and Wales will finally disregard the experiences of what has been learnt from social work and particularly probation practice and move to an ever more correctionalist response to crime, and how long it will be before it is realised that for most law breakers that is a wrong approach, if one seeks to build a society at ease with itself.Andrew_S_Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115192522317353139noreply@blogger.com