tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post5608393344092795981..comments2024-03-29T13:05:24.150+00:00Comments on On Probation Blog: Is It Legal?Jim Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-36660847885059470112014-07-13T17:22:16.031+01:002014-07-13T17:22:16.031+01:00If I didn't have strong feelings about the deb...If I didn't have strong feelings about the debacle that is TR I would hardly have bothered taking strike action etc as in previous post.If you are inferring that the PI is "putting the very ethos of our jobs and the safety of the public at risk" I disagree with that- it does not seem to me or other Napo members I know to merit much attention at all within the current turmoil of probation. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-10341803897152003932014-07-13T13:34:16.239+01:002014-07-13T13:34:16.239+01:00'Some of the above comments read more as rants...'Some of the above comments read more as rants '. Well yes, I suppose they might if you 'dont have strong feelings' about the things that are putting the very ethos of our jobs and the safety of the public at risk. <br /><br />Simon GardenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-53416833854925788092014-07-13T13:27:57.420+01:002014-07-13T13:27:57.420+01:00To anon 00:55 I'm a Napo member who has tsken ...To anon 00:55 I'm a Napo member who has tsken strike action,seen MP in HofC,spoken to press ie tried (and continue to try)to publicise concerns about TR .I dont have strong feelings as to the current necessity/value of the PI. Some of the above comments read more as rants and are very over generalised. There is no evidence that association with PI is linked with anyone acquiring any "power". Comments made on here re the effects of TR probably do have to be more precise to constitute evidence eg refer to the town/area at least and info sent to yr MP or Union rep if you are in a Union as there's no guarantee MPs read this blog. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-91118433298720034662014-07-13T08:48:39.044+01:002014-07-13T08:48:39.044+01:00There have been numerous articles in the press rec...There have been numerous articles in the press recently, last Sunday page 2 of the independent, Private Eye to name but two which uses those details, There was a big debating session where grayling was on the spot, Sadiq Khan and numerous Mp's were raising specific examples. The justice Select committee and more recently the public Accounts committe also raised questions from accounts of what is happening on the front line. There is no magic bullet where we can just stop things overnight, but all that info needs to be fed back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-26991511881886850642014-07-13T06:37:53.452+01:002014-07-13T06:37:53.452+01:00When will people realize that no matter what is th...When will people realize that no matter what is thrown at us there is no appetite for further industrial action. People are walking and those who are left are doing the job out of necessity......hardly the material for strike action!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-78372140466898061032014-07-13T05:15:36.782+01:002014-07-13T05:15:36.782+01:00Well said Simon.Well said Simon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-34734056623850490202014-07-13T00:55:54.937+01:002014-07-13T00:55:54.937+01:00Anonymous12 July 2014 22:32 – yes you’re right, It...Anonymous12 July 2014 22:32 – yes you’re right, It’s not a ‘little comment’. I agree on that. However to suggest or indicate or even use the word ‘libel’ is a means to control a view/debate through a form of threat. You educating me about free speech when in fact you were the one that referred to this in the first place. I can only see this as a form of control, an attempt on your part to suppress debate. I found it interesting how NAPO leaders/reps actively used this ‘libellous’ word to prevent ppl from talking openly about Ledger & found it interesting when you also referred to this. <br /><br />And for Simon's comments - well done Simon for raising these issues. I haven't forgotten when NAPO moderators deleted your comments from the discussion forum. There are many ppl behind you and support you fully. you keep going. The ones who are holding on to support NAPO and probation institute are the minority. They are blinded by their own self interest for power.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-1573598270786781222014-07-12T23:52:06.916+01:002014-07-12T23:52:06.916+01:00Well said Simon, now the union leaders should read...Well said Simon, now the union leaders should read this and hang their heads in shame. I keep repeating myself there is a hundred and one examples of the effect this is having on the workforce, and everyday all we get is send us examples of what is going on. Well what is happening to these examples because judging from endless comments made on this blog, its NOTHING. And furthermore why do they need examples can they not see for themselves what's happening, are they that far detached from practice and reality of the situation. BLOODYWELL USE THE EXAMPLES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN SENT TO, there's enough evidence to sink the titanic, what more do you need.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-75991106735799064692014-07-12T22:37:36.053+01:002014-07-12T22:37:36.053+01:00If the union leadership had been serious about ind...If the union leadership had been serious about industrial action - if they had built for a strike, organised, agitated, engaged and involved people, then things could have been very different. But they didn't. Instead they did the very least that was possible, while peddling illusions in some nonsensical, polite and gentlemanly, parliamentary route to saving the service. Write to your MP! Lobby the Liberals! They chose not to focus the anger and frustration that was uniting our membership, and pointedly avoided escalating the action - and then sought to justify their inaction by blaming the members. 'They won't support it' 'they don't have the stomach for it' and so forth. These claims might have been more convincing if the members had even had the opportunity to rebuff further, more concrete action, but the possibility was never floated - never discussed, never promoted. Our leaders didn't want to risk real industrial action. They've instead approached the TR crisis with what might at best be viewed as a prematurely resigned notion that TR is somehow inevitable and unstoppable, and that the best we might hope for is to salvage a few crumbs - union 'action' as purely a rearguard action, if you will. That however is a charitable view, and it might equally be argued that there has in truth been collusion in instituting the changes from those purporting to lead the fight against privatisation, de professionalisation and so forth. Imagine for a moment a very different 1984 where the NUM decided not to strike, but instead to help set up and run an 'independent' institute of mining, part funded by the Thatcher government, and otherwise headed by managers who had helped to introduce privatisation into mining, so that the public could be assured that there would be professional standards underpinning a new privatised mining industry. Ludicrous, isn't it.... If the NAPO bureaucracy really and sincerely believe in the Probation institute then it can only be that they have forgotten what a union is, what it is for, and who it represents because they've been seduced by the trappings of power. Rather than seeing value and power in principles and in the work force they represent it seems they've somehow instead come to believe that the 'real' business, the important business takes place solely among executive types at executive meetings. It seems they don't won't to sully their image in the eyes of their assumed peers on the employers side of the table as reasonable men who can do business with any of that dirty industrial action nonsense - they instead imagine they might share power on boards and executives, and then perhaps put the odd word in for us at high powered meetings that we're too pig-headed or bloody-minded to understand and then bask in our acclaim... Four legs good, two legs better.... Meanwhile, each of us faces a daily reality of chaos, confusion, and despair, and a future of permanent insecurity...<br /><br />Simon Garden Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-61201802038379929742014-07-12T22:32:21.359+01:002014-07-12T22:32:21.359+01:00Sorry anon14.53 again! Anon 17.45 the comment or a...Sorry anon14.53 again! Anon 17.45 the comment or accusation is not some 'little comment' it's a bloody serious one, which if true means that our Gen Sec and NAPO leadership are not fighting TR and colluding with the process. I'm not sure if you will see the irony in your comments that you are in effect decrying my rightt to free speech. I'm not sure what I've got to do with Johnathon Ledger or why I would be taking out libel actions on his or other peopls behalf, or come to that, ian Lawrence or even taking out legal threats against Grayling. Difference between free speech and making an observation and a threat. I am not a manager...but I do know managers are members of NAPO too and quite a few have fought and continue to fight this shitty process!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-30863926780065200762014-07-12T21:37:00.695+01:002014-07-12T21:37:00.695+01:00I'm anon at 14.53. Simon, I take it you have r...I'm anon at 14.53. Simon, I take it you have raised your feelings at branch meetings- what you are saying could be taken forwards to NEC, or taken as a motion to AGM there aeems to be a lot of people on here with the same or similar sentiments posting on here. But is that a majority view? i was the only one in my office out on the last strike, i noted that pat Waterman said that only 20 percent of members went out in london at the last strike, IMO if we go out on strike again or had done on the 10th, the strike would cause divisions between members ie joe bloggs is not striking because he's NPS or NPS in an office comes out and the CRC don't etc etc and it would also in all likelihood lose goodwill in the HOC just at the point where momentum is building. There are a number of good articles getting in the press highlighting the concerns, and judicial Review is very much on the cards. the Probation Institute is rapidly losing the little relevance it had and the less airtime it is given the better. I'm not a NAPO apologist and there are loads of things wrong with the Union but also a lot that is right, I don't think now is the time to be implying that Il and team are Not interested in fighting Privatisation, but if you believe that, there are democratic means of raising it within the Union.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-62972413216385797262014-07-12T18:49:25.337+01:002014-07-12T18:49:25.337+01:00Andrew I see your point. Reading the blog appears...Andrew I see your point. Reading the blog appears to me like all the contributors are united in trying to explore ways to fight off the TR mess anyway we can. I still think many readers (if not we as in all ) would be interested to discover exactly what Prompted Harry to infer something is illegal and what exactly might that be ? There I have spelled it out ! <br />DinoDinonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-81102138851872524792014-07-12T18:38:37.469+01:002014-07-12T18:38:37.469+01:00"Last week the UK saw the biggest public sect..."Last week the UK saw the biggest public sector strike in half a century"<br /><br />Meanwhile a G4S spokesperson condemned the strike action claiming that they could have done it twice as effectively, and for half of the cost :)<br /><br />I'm past caring now. I have at least 3 ISP's that are not completed (might be 4), breaches that are not being done, dinners that are not being ate and offenders who are just being turned round in reception. Why? Simply due to my excessive caseload which at present allows me approximately 15 minutes per person. If something comes up which I have to deal with (such as the homeless guy on Friday (why always Friday) afternoon and the food parcel for another person, this reduced the time and allows me to ask 'everything fine, any changes, right, here's your next appointment' before I give them a travel warrant.<br /><br />I have a email trail between my Union rep and manager should anything go wrong.Ennuinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-38866390633053318452014-07-12T18:06:45.660+01:002014-07-12T18:06:45.660+01:00I do not know Dino - but hope he has no aspiration...I do not know Dino - but hope he has no aspirations for high office anywhere if he makes assumptions such as - 'we are all interested to read that' - I do not know which 'we' he is referencing - it seems to me there are too many who are trying to keep their heads down or worse are actively involved in a misinformation campaign.<br /><br />I really believe if everyone working with TR who thinks it is bad contacts their MP and the media once a week with one example of what has gone wrong that they know about - it will at least be slowed if not stopped altogether.<br /><br />Please if you reader think TR is flawed and you are a probation practitioner do not leave the publicity to someone else - you will be left with the consequences - one way or another - so better to work to actively stop it happening rather than hope it gets better or goes away - which seems unlikely.Andrew_S_Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115192522317353139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-66085612559505299192014-07-12T18:05:06.101+01:002014-07-12T18:05:06.101+01:00Spot on Simon, well said. Respect to you for speak...Spot on Simon, well said. Respect to you for speaking up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-41815147906582429682014-07-12T17:57:02.415+01:002014-07-12T17:57:02.415+01:00'Potentially libellous'! Ha! That would be...'Potentially libellous'! Ha! That would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. Ian Lawrence and his supporters in NAPO have done nothing of substance to fight privatisati<br />on. The promotion of tokenistic gestures like 'stand up for probation' that they know to be of little consequence, in the absence of a real strategy of industrial action is simply further evidence of what has been little more than a sham campaign from the outset - all about looking the part while being sure to stop well short of any action that could have risked an actual material influence on proceedings. Putting time and money into the Probation Institute - which, regardless of the bogus account of its origins as promulgated by its quisling participants was in reality introduced by grayling as integral to to TR before being taken forwards by the Probation Chiefs Association and the Probation Association, who are on record as undertaking to help design and implement TR - is the true measure of our leader's real priorities. When we should be united in opposing privatisation they are in fact active partners in seeking to ensure its success. Last week the UK saw the biggest public sector strike in half a century. An ideal opportunity for probation industrial action to have maximum impact one might think. But did Lawrence and his cronies act? No... And for why? Because we're in negotiations about pay! Well not only are we already promised a cap on public sector pay, a fact that makes a nonsense of awaiting the outcome of any supposed negotiations, half the strikers weren't out about fucking pay! We could and should have been out at the same time because of everything we're discussing here - but we didn't get the call because our leaders don't appear to Give two fucks about the reality of our situation. I'm not insulting anyone's intelligence in saying this - I'm appealing to you to use it.... <br />Simon GardenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-2115283863930805202014-07-12T17:45:44.188+01:002014-07-12T17:45:44.188+01:00Anonymous12 July 2014 14:53 - "If I was Ian L...Anonymous12 July 2014 14:53 - "If I was Ian Lawrence, I would be seeing the above comment that he is not interested in fighting privatisation as potentially libellous". <br />Bloody hell, here we f’ing go again. Some little comment & straight in there ‘libellous’. We got a crisis in hand, Staff are going under & over, the ones that remain are medicated to kingdom come & you talk about a few words mentioned on this blog. What the F**k happened to your ‘libellous’ when Ledger was going round sexually assaulting women which proved to be a fact.<br />Any F’ing criticism & you straight in there. If you spent the same legal threats on fighting Grayling legally maybe we wouldn’t be here today. Instead you are happy to threaten someone’s freedom of speech of making a comment. Are you sure a manager, cause you sound like one.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-42975148045738208192014-07-12T16:45:15.096+01:002014-07-12T16:45:15.096+01:00Will keep you informed and if I am forced like the...Will keep you informed and if I am forced like the shafting process, I will as them to donate my shares to a charity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-42540037025245664622014-07-12T14:53:37.053+01:002014-07-12T14:53:37.053+01:00If we had gone for JR according to every call that...If we had gone for JR according to every call that had been put on this blog for different aspects of the process we would have been in to the hundereds! if you have legal counsel who forensically go through every avenue and tell you where you have a case and where you don't, what do you do? JR is not a fucking magic bullet and from the little i understand is a lengthy process that takes a great deal of tooing and froing. If I was Ian Lawrence, I would be seeing the above comment that he is not interested in fighting privatisation as potentially libellous. We have ALL been shafted, we are up against an incredibly powerful machine who have got everything behind them and still...this whole process is imploding and there is still a chance it's going to go down the pan. It must be very cathartic to be able to vent anger about an individual situation on here and also very easy to become quite poisonous (such as the other day where the candidate standing for GLB leadership got slagged off) but that in itself will achieve nothing. i'm sure that if Joanna hughes is taking comments off here, the first thing they are going to do (MP's) is ask for evidence to back this up..I 'm sure everything fed back is true, but proving it will be another matter, without the protection of a union. I'm not involved in NAPO other than as a member who attends meetings and reads the info given out, I'm sure there are a myriad of issues going on at Chivalry Road as there is in any Union, company etc etc. But to say that they are not interested in stopping the privatisation process, please don't insult my intelligence and if people want to take selfie's fucking good on em!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-89616107128311022702014-07-12T14:24:22.908+01:002014-07-12T14:24:22.908+01:00Good luck with that, will look forward to hearing ...Good luck with that, will look forward to hearing how you get on with that!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-51095538005580044882014-07-12T13:58:10.204+01:002014-07-12T13:58:10.204+01:00I know Joanna and I have the most respect for you,...I know Joanna and I have the most respect for you, although sometimes feeling a bit envious that I didn't have the strength like you to stand by my principles, but I try and make as much noise as I can by my little self. I will NEVER accept TR, and thank you Jim and Pat for all you do. Without your fight we would have already been game set and match to Grayling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-71414911288135330872014-07-12T13:18:51.616+01:002014-07-12T13:18:51.616+01:00A 'Reputation Management' and 'Social ...A 'Reputation Management' and 'Social Media Management Service' company with no grasp of basic English! Good luck with that...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-78231862908760038122014-07-12T12:57:58.609+01:002014-07-12T12:57:58.609+01:00You have shared a great information about Reputati...You have shared a great information about <a href="http://www.plmr.co.uk/what-we-do/services/public-media-relations" rel="nofollow">Reputation Management</a> and <a href="http://www.plmr.co.uk/what-we-do/services/digital-pr-and-campaigns" rel="nofollow">Social Media Management Services</a>.Which are very informative for us.Thanks<br />PLMR Londonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17137509906876196242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-18020256895048515262014-07-12T11:52:35.460+01:002014-07-12T11:52:35.460+01:00Hi, I just wanted to respond to anon at 11.17 to r...Hi, I just wanted to respond to anon at 11.17 to reassure that, while I have no idea what Napo are doing with the information you are sending them, and have heard some worrying examples of incompetence recently in spite of Ian's reassuring blog, I have collated all of the comments on this blog under headings and put in a briefing which has been sent via the appropriate channels to parliament. I understand exactly what you say about how hard it is to have a job and fight as well, which is why I can do what I can while unemployed!Joanna Hughesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-68234454219747687482014-07-12T11:39:39.234+01:002014-07-12T11:39:39.234+01:00Don't pin your hopes too much on Mr Pearson. H...Don't pin your hopes too much on Mr Pearson. He was a manager working for NOMs rolling out N Delius. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com