tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post4405720954494571191..comments2024-03-28T23:10:52.046+00:00Comments on On Probation Blog: Bits and PiecesJim Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-52988719385773287772014-11-23T18:33:47.235+00:002014-11-23T18:33:47.235+00:00You are trying my patience my friend and I will no...You are trying my patience my friend and I will not have this blog hijacked by anyone. We have aired the issues and I have suggested you write a guest blog. I am drawing a line under this subject and will have to request that you stop posting comments that are basically repetitive. Jim Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-26725699729129065032014-11-23T17:38:40.215+00:002014-11-23T17:38:40.215+00:00Whats "abusive"? The entire concept of S...Whats "abusive"? The entire concept of SOTP from the outset. The way it is delivered, the way nobody here has any statistical analysis to back up the validity of SOTP. The entire thing from the outset.<br /><br />Those who support SOTP are blinkered to the abuses they allow.<br /><br />Probation is dead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-62224720460048756932014-11-23T08:59:57.772+00:002014-11-23T08:59:57.772+00:00That's ok - no problem. In an ideal world and ...That's ok - no problem. In an ideal world and one where we wern't fighting for survival, I'd happily just let it run until everyone got bored, but I'm conscious our friend's contributions are very effectively taking the blog away from the main business in hand. I'm not going to allow that. I hope every one understands that, even if not in agreement with it.<br /><br />Thanks. Jim Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-23820443777184266602014-11-23T08:34:33.909+00:002014-11-23T08:34:33.909+00:00Whoops, sorry Jim - I posted above at 8:33 before ...Whoops, sorry Jim - I posted above at 8:33 before seeing this comment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-60960922684761764902014-11-23T08:33:33.497+00:002014-11-23T08:33:33.497+00:00Anon 23rd Nov 01:15 "I still see no champions...Anon 23rd Nov 01:15 "I still see no champions of SOTP coming forward with statistical evidences to prove conclusively that what they do has an accurately measurable effect on stopping re-offending."<br /><br />Anon 22nd Nov 12:25: "Of course if you are saying that you can judge the effects of the programme on one individual by saying that several thousand people reacted to it in a certain way then you are plain wrong in the first instance."<br /><br />On the assumption that the two comments were made by the same person, can you tell us what you want those statistics to prove?<br /><br />I have worked with a number of men, convicted of sexual offences, who have demanded statistical proof that the programme would work for them before engaging in SOTP. In each case, I believe that this was their way of avoiding taking responsibility for their behaviour, because the consequences of that (e.g. admitting to family and friends that they were guilty after all) was too difficult to contemplate. Of course the only person who will really know the truth of that is them - and perhaps even they still do not know.<br /><br />I'm prepared to accept that Anon 01:15 experienced SOTP as unhelpful, but without offering anyone an explanation of what it was that was "abusive", nothing is going to change - particularly the assumption that he isn't as remorseful and accepting of responsibility as he claims.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-38453429741590951522014-11-23T08:08:35.958+00:002014-11-23T08:08:35.958+00:00Indeed. We've been nicely sidetracked for seve...Indeed. We've been nicely sidetracked for several days now and the editor feels we've exhausted most of the issues surrounding the delivery of SOTP, together with the general failings of the Probation Service seen from a consumers point of view. <br /><br />There are other more important issues to concern us at the present time and I am therefore drawing a line under this subject. As always I urge the irritated commentator to put their thoughts and arguments into a guest blog and I will publish it. <br /><br />Thanks.Jim Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-66634638518546087262014-11-23T07:47:35.663+00:002014-11-23T07:47:35.663+00:00As Cantona famously said: Why do the seagulls foll...As Cantona famously said: Why do the seagulls follow the trawler? It's been said many times on this blog, if you don't give attention to contributions you don't like, they will probably fade away. And it's pointless to criticise someone for hijacking debate, much better to make your own substantive points.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-17601715544276904462014-11-23T05:45:59.904+00:002014-11-23T05:45:59.904+00:00To Anon 01:15
This is not the place - take your co...To Anon 01:15<br />This is not the place - take your concerns to NOMS/MOJ for they have the answers you seek. Your posts have an anger directed at practitioners and most reading them simply see deflection, go to the place that holds your answers and perhaps when you get them share them here. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-16666325109112876762014-11-23T01:15:31.186+00:002014-11-23T01:15:31.186+00:00Oh but I am remorseful and fully aware that what I...Oh but I am remorseful and fully aware that what I did was wrong, I do not blame others for what I did, it was me, I know precisely why I was doing what I did,.If I could do anything to attempt to rectify what I did I would do so. I am merely saying how I myself have been offended by the useless intervention that has zero statistical evidence to suggest what it does helps.<br /><br />I would like for the statistics that prove the effectiveness of SOTP's to be published on this blog by someone in the Probation Service, i that is too much to ask?<br /><br />Simon Garden, whoever you may be in the world of Probation, (perhaps you could tell me who you are and what you do?) is culpable of the same thing that he is accusing me of.<br /><br />Introduce comment moderation if you will, it's only to help those who have no ability to come to terms with what SOTP's do is highly abusive in itself, nothing will ever convince them that that is the case.<br /><br />I can see where Mr. Garden is coming from, he himself continuously fails to see my point of view...<br /><br />I still see no champions of SOTP coming forward with statistical evidences to prove conclusively that what they do has an accurately measurable effect on stopping re-offending.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-75253253558280593842014-11-22T23:33:29.506+00:002014-11-22T23:33:29.506+00:00Sorry supposed to be power not poser.Sorry supposed to be power not poser.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-46021055235952228572014-11-22T22:10:55.031+00:002014-11-22T22:10:55.031+00:00I don't know why people are getting into this ...I don't know why people are getting into this stuff. Perhaps its away of avoiding the original topic and the horrific abuse suffered by children and then the continued abuse by covering it up by those in poser.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-34576972771543287722014-11-22T20:56:49.066+00:002014-11-22T20:56:49.066+00:00I agree with that suggestion. The comments are rep...I agree with that suggestion. The comments are repetitive and quite offensive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-61121515603717016672014-11-22T20:47:41.913+00:002014-11-22T20:47:41.913+00:00CSAP - Correctional Services Accreditation Panel. ...CSAP - Correctional Services Accreditation Panel. Formerly the Joint Prison Probation Accreditation Panel. Google it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-51280104723310979782014-11-22T19:48:56.497+00:002014-11-22T19:48:56.497+00:00It's of little surprise that someone who comm...It's of little surprise that someone who committed these offences and then refused to participate meaningfully in the programme is also just repeating his baseless carping / argue about anything as long as i don't have to account for what i did or why i did it behaviour here ad nauseam and can't/won't countenance any discourse that involves his needing to concede any fact or accept the slightest scintilla of responsibility. Can't you reintroduce comment monitoring until he finds another route to deflect his responsibility?<br /><br />Simon GardenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-55930229504626886302014-11-22T19:05:03.839+00:002014-11-22T19:05:03.839+00:00It depends on who is doing the accreditation. As s...It depends on who is doing the accreditation. As someone who works in programmes, I can confirm that the process is fixed for the benefit of of those who design it and those who promote it Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-52657501812546230562014-11-22T18:55:35.245+00:002014-11-22T18:55:35.245+00:00I hope you find a path to treatment and that this ...I hope you find a path to treatment and that this allows you to recognise how frightening and devastating it is for victims of exposure offences. I hope you can develop healthy sexual functioning that does not involve breaking the law or being responsible for the victimisation of others. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-21298324804503941462014-11-22T17:56:52.655+00:002014-11-22T17:56:52.655+00:00You see, maybe blowing my own trumpet here but I a...You see, maybe blowing my own trumpet here but I am perhaps slightly brighter than your average customer and when something stinks as badly as SOTP I get upset. Compliance has made me a worse person. I'm not however and never have been at any risk whatsoever of reoffending but any response that isn't "Yes, I agree entirely" is met with heightening of risk and very excited Police Officers arresting you for every similar offence that takes place in the county.<br /><br />The vast majority of Offenders on SOTP know precisely what it is, a crock of shite, indeed, as soon as we leave the building we can all be guaranteed to be in agreement that it doesn't address anything in a worthwhile manner.<br /><br />That's where I agree about privatisation that they wont do anything better (not that they have SOTP, well not yet) but the state service has been doing these things for years in preparation for this.<br /><br />You don't need any real qualification to be a Facilitator just the ability to read the manual...<br /><br />I'll leave this from a tentative version of a blog I am slowly writing up...<br /><br />Group Manager: We pride ourselves on being completely transparent.<br /><br />Me: Can I read the Manual?<br /><br />Group Manager: No.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-84182872631996781452014-11-22T17:35:56.018+00:002014-11-22T17:35:56.018+00:00The MOJ published some academic research about 12 ...The MOJ published some academic research about 12 months ago that stated that of all the CBT courses had less than spectacular re-oofending rates. SOTP had the best re-offending rates. Something like a 14% reduction over one year but diminishing rapidly after that.<br /><br />CALM, ETS and the like I think were round about 7%or8% reduction in re-offending in the first year, again falling to 3%or 4% after that.<br /><br />Supervision based on respectful relationships and RJ were the most effective. As a PO I know that when the people we are working with understand we are there to help them in the areas in which they need help, this is the most effective type of intervention. Together with holding on to the certainty that human interaction is complex and difficult; yes people it takes time and effort form all concerned. The privatised world of probation will not have time for the complexity.<br /><br /> SOPT is not a magic bullet and if needs to be run with imagination and compassion; we need to work with people not drill them.<br /><br />papaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-42318486561497899632014-11-22T17:35:54.778+00:002014-11-22T17:35:54.778+00:00The abuse continues... Surely the last commentator...The abuse continues... Surely the last commentator cannot have anything to do with probation? No, on second thought they most probably do.<br /><br />What happens to those sent back to court then? Why do so many agree to go along with such a practice as SOTP? Hmm, if the likelihood was to be let go and not do any programme then I'm sure everybody would be sent back to court...<br /><br />It's a ramshackle nonsense and those working in it will try to get away with doing as little real work as possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-19947587570566088692014-11-22T17:27:30.623+00:002014-11-22T17:27:30.623+00:00Individually, one to one with real people who can ...Individually, one to one with real people who can respond themselves in a friendily and polite manner, instead of the robots with manuals for brains, talk in buzz words and bull shit and who deffer the responsibility of response to Joe Sex Offender.<br /><br />If you know the latest statistics to validate these SOTP's then why not publish them here?<br /><br />Are they perhaps not quite as conclusive as you'd have thought?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-29928232358664797232014-11-22T16:46:12.199+00:002014-11-22T16:46:12.199+00:00As a practitioner I have observed how some (usuall...As a practitioner I have observed how some (usually inexperienced) SOTP trained staff have accorded themselves with the status of 'expert'...yet because they are so rigid in their views (as instructed to be by their training) I would suggest that they ignore anything that sits outside of the parameters of that training or attempt to pigeon hole challenges to the delivery of said programme as individuals being a) Manipulative or b) Controlling....how often have you heard this around the office when someone on the programme dares to stick their head above the parapet and challenge the 'expert'-there is a role for the programme but not as a one size fits all, in my humble opinion....and on top of this the recently released paper which calls into question the validity of SARN as a future risk predictor should shift the Parole boards reliance upon the word of the psychologist against that of the practitioner.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-6747667740567481552014-11-22T16:11:26.941+00:002014-11-22T16:11:26.941+00:00Had you not chosen to expose yourself to a woman, ...Had you not chosen to expose yourself to a woman, you could have avoided all the pain you describe! Interested in why you chose a woman? Maybe a man would have knocked your teeth out-ahh the great deterrent !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-38251843133342287832014-11-22T16:08:03.924+00:002014-11-22T16:08:03.924+00:00How about you tell us how to work effectively with...How about you tell us how to work effectively with people who commit sex offences; that would be refreshing, rather than listen to people who have devoted their entire lives to developing such interventions. I said previously, do your own research instead of asking other contributors for the information! However you do need to keep an open mind!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-46430710350947119102014-11-22T16:02:19.909+00:002014-11-22T16:02:19.909+00:00No I don't and if you wish to review the work ...No I don't and if you wish to review the work and the outcomes, objectively, feel free, but don't presume to know everything about everybody based on your own experience!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-81118390241584260792014-11-22T15:58:01.030+00:002014-11-22T15:58:01.030+00:00Blimey a name! Thanks. The guy has no idea how his...Blimey a name! Thanks. The guy has no idea how his award winning programme fucked up a whole profession, drove many an officer to utter despair, early retirement and probably an early grave. The person hours wasted on this pile of utterly useless garbage is incalcuable, and is probably the single biggest reason we are in the bloody mess we are now. <br /><br />Thanks Danny - it would be lovely to hear you speak in defence of your handiwork. Jim Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.com