tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post3883690627284016734..comments2024-03-29T06:40:58.606+00:00Comments on On Probation Blog: A Reality CheckJim Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-86394444170697329572014-09-26T06:21:04.399+01:002014-09-26T06:21:04.399+01:00A good point. I know Joanna has been in touch in t...A good point. I know Joanna has been in touch in the past, but I suspect not unnaturally Tom just wants to fade into the background, such was the degree of animosity generated towards him. Jim Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00258147767051200157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-90732525053236649002014-09-26T05:34:55.096+01:002014-09-26T05:34:55.096+01:00This is a govt prepared to use and abuse legal pro...This is a govt prepared to use and abuse legal process to achieve its corrupt agenda. When govt ministers believe they are above the law we are in trouble. Can only respond with legal action. Joanna have you come across anyone prepared to act pro bono and if so can NAPO be side stepped and group action initiated without them? Would this be enough to delay TR at least? This govt is prepared to use & abuse legal process to achieve its corrupt agenda. We as a profession, and the CJS as a whole is in deep trouble.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-26114184855480083912014-09-25T23:15:09.495+01:002014-09-25T23:15:09.495+01:00Anon 21.30 I am anon 17.35. I agree with you ..100...Anon 21.30 I am anon 17.35. I agree with you ..100% we might as well go into an all out battle and give them everything we've got in a JR. He has akready had one go against him.. If another JR is launched then his reputation (such as it is) will suffer even more and maybe his downfall Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-15280829017163992982014-09-25T22:03:17.171+01:002014-09-25T22:03:17.171+01:00See if you can work it out. If you need a clue I s...See if you can work it out. If you need a clue I say 'we' and 'our' several times when referring to union issues affecting members. Oh and also, I'm not really going to be pissed off with NAPOs leaders when I'm not a member now am I? :-)<br /><br />Simon GardenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-42173928470530874612014-09-25T21:57:14.253+01:002014-09-25T21:57:14.253+01:00Unison should be ashamed of the way they have beha...Unison should be ashamed of the way they have behaved, they might be cheaper but they do nowt except go round offices telling people what they're gonna do - then don'tAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-82981482598270967492014-09-25T21:55:26.640+01:002014-09-25T21:55:26.640+01:00Yes Andrew-we've raised issue! Have not had pr...Yes Andrew-we've raised issue! Have not had problems before with local Unison reps but these were regional reps apparently.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-88881897263728580462014-09-25T21:46:59.192+01:002014-09-25T21:46:59.192+01:00Anon 21.43
That reads like poaching??Anon 21.43<br /><br />That reads like poaching??Andrew_S_Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115192522317353139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-7464327808769161922014-09-25T21:43:09.396+01:002014-09-25T21:43:09.396+01:00Agree absolutely anon 21.30 (and partner-sadly ver...Agree absolutely anon 21.30 (and partner-sadly very apt quote). We had an aggressive barn-storming visit from Unison too last week and 2 from CRC were persuaded to cross. Given how little Unison has done in TR campaigning, their regional reps' breezy approach was infuriating. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-51300303787391036282014-09-25T21:40:30.067+01:002014-09-25T21:40:30.067+01:00I'm now told the quote isn't accurate. But...I'm now told the quote isn't accurate. But hey, is this "as good as it gets"?<br /><br />Lets make a difference, people. "JR. jR. JR." Etc etc etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-64757564765691774552014-09-25T21:31:38.305+01:002014-09-25T21:31:38.305+01:00Jim if your sources are correct about Tom having w...Jim if your sources are correct about Tom having wanted to pursue JR then would he be willing to assist with an EM? He must have useful knowledge about the earlier attempts at JR so maybe could join forces with Joanne in disc with legal advisors if there are any still willing to assist?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-77636864676779170772014-09-25T21:30:44.747+01:002014-09-25T21:30:44.747+01:00Unison haven't been lazy - they're trawlin...Unison haven't been lazy - they're trawling offices poaching angry, disappointed napo members. We lost three to them today. Grayling & co have ruined Napo. Their divide and rule tactics are second to none. With the help of terrified noms & trust staff they have driven a wedge into the heartwood of social work values and split it asunder. Those who have the courage need to act Now, independently if necessary, to put Grayling back in his crypt. I think JR is the only real option, I think a PCO is possible, eSpecially if we can get someone to act pro bono (how many defence Barrister's speeches have been written by probation report authors - be honest). Why has IL delayed this? What has Grayling got on him? We're going to war anyway, so why not all-out war - home and away? We're fucked if we don't, so why not get fucked trying. "At least I did that".<br /><br />My partner reminded me of Her favourite Film moment the other day:<br /><br />"I'm fucking drowning here, and all you can do is describe the water."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-80281436540395715452014-09-25T21:23:22.763+01:002014-09-25T21:23:22.763+01:00Off topic, but there is an eventual connection.......Off topic, but there is an eventual connection.... today I was shocked by the extent that Charities impinge on the work of professionals in our society, are they "filling the gaps" or taking jobs out of the economy? <br />A relative with terminal cancer needed admitting to hospital this evening (arranged by his GP) and instead of the Ambulance Service attending we were shocked to find two St John volunteers arrived. My relative was in a collapsed state and it was an emergency admission, although the volunteers did their best we were concerned as to how they would cope however, he is now safely in hospital.<br />But, why are charities doing such work? The volunteers said they regularly "help out" when the ambulance service can't meet its demands so why isn't the ambulance service employing the correct number of professionally qualified staff?<br />Is this the future for probation too? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-68488672915098282212014-09-25T20:58:28.914+01:002014-09-25T20:58:28.914+01:00To say "It is therefore disappointing that so...To say "It is therefore disappointing that some social and other media activity has been deeply insensitive to members of staff, their loved ones and victims of crime" is a disgrace.<br /><br />Only when Grayling stands up in the House of Commons and says that he's so convinced in the value of his 'reforms' that he will take personal responsibility for any and all SFOs that result from TR, will he have earned the right to spout that garbage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-38960883688290420762014-09-25T20:28:26.770+01:002014-09-25T20:28:26.770+01:00Are you a NAPO member Simon?Are you a NAPO member Simon?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-26322950599942363912014-09-25T20:08:06.192+01:002014-09-25T20:08:06.192+01:00Fuck Ian Lawrence and Fuck NAPO. I don't doubt...Fuck Ian Lawrence and Fuck NAPO. I don't doubt there are still local reps fighting the good fight but the national Union are as much the architects of our current situation as the MoJ. No opportunity to make a stand has been left unsquandered. I thought it was ridiculous myself when it first crossed my mind but as time has rolled on and the increasing urgency has met with less and less response from our supposed leaders l can only wonder if Lawrence and those close to him are actually in cahoots with the employers. It's hard to countenance that such a pathetic display could be the result of mere incompetence, and I genuinely wonder whether NAPO's feeble response to the attack we have faced has been a matter of deliberately leading us into defeat. For sure there's been posturing aplenty, and a fair degree of hot air, but there has otherwise been a seemingly wilful swerving,sidestepping and stopping well short of anything that might have constituted effective action.... Just what are we paying them for- and in particular why are we paying someone who has never been a Probation Officer twice as much as a Probation officer to do absolutely nothing to defend our the Probation profession? I guess he doesn't want to risk OUR money on a judicial review because he wants to make sure that he and his friends gets a good cut of OUR money once he's allowed our profession and our union to die.<br /><br />Simon GardenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-63966829986226945122014-09-25T19:27:35.961+01:002014-09-25T19:27:35.961+01:00Un bloody believable ! How dare grayling and selou...Un bloody believable ! How dare grayling and selous say those things. It makes me so so angry. I have had that email at home and have forwarded it to my MP (labour) with my views !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-38891644780792764012014-09-25T19:15:39.214+01:002014-09-25T19:15:39.214+01:00I'd have to agree with anon 18:46 whilst we mi...I'd have to agree with anon 18:46 whilst we might disagree with the tactics from the NAPO leadership we have to remember they have been trying to derail a minister whose egotism even surpasses that of Thatcher and will listen to no-one and is determined to hide any information which questions his TR project such as the MPA advice, testgate 1/2/3 or other freedom of information requests in the same way that he misled the Solicitors in their fight to protect Legal Aid. Here's an extract from the letter he has just issued to the Unions in respect to staff:<br /><br />"While some staff are still adjusting ton the new structures and working practices many probation offices have been engaging constructively with our reforms and are beginning to seegenuine opportunities these changes can bring for offenders and society as a whole. It is therefore disappointing that some social and other media activity has been deeply insensitive to members of staff, their loved ones and victims of crime"<br /><br />and I understand that Mr Selous has has now withdrawn from attending the NAPO AGM because of NAPOs activities. Clearly the one thing we need to do is stick together and stick with NAPO/Jim/Joanna etc as we have them rattled. In addition at the meeting Unions had with Mr Selous today he:<br /><br />"At one point Mr Selous astonishingly claimed that it was clear that the staff he had spoken to up and down the NPS and CRC had “got over the grieving process” (following the split) and were now looking forward to the many opportunities open to them in the new environment!<br /><br />Is that opportunities to leave NPS/CRC? If he attended the NAPO AGM he might find out what the majority of Probation staff felt about his reforms! Clearly the people he speaks to are carefully selected!<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-25121466621518875202014-09-25T18:46:26.667+01:002014-09-25T18:46:26.667+01:00There really is nothing to lose now, it is beyond ...There really is nothing to lose now, it is beyond the point where members should be directed away from this and if the membership wants a JR application to be made, that is the one thing above all else that the union should be pursuing. I do understand that redundancy may be an issues for union staff if all fails but realistically we are ALL facing redundancy given all of our jobs have disappeared and none of the job descriptions we were transferred to the new organisation on, still apply. <br />There is no legal need for a reserve of union funds to be ring-fenced at this point so it will be wholly inappropriate if that has been done. Indeed it may be ultra vires if the union treasurer has done so. However, it is easy to establish this by asking the treasurer Keith Stokeld.<br />So, that's NAPO, but what about Unison who imo have absolutely failed it's membership but also undermined NAPO. From the very outset there has been bluster and apparent support but local information appears to me that their officers have not understood probation and have been focused upon NHS issues. Many managers have also joined another union, used to be PMA, which I think is now under PCS and their silence has been deafening.<br />My view is that the only union that has taken action is NAPO and those of us who are members now need to ensure this issue is addressed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-29000942692853137042014-09-25T18:24:18.864+01:002014-09-25T18:24:18.864+01:00Another member here (and Branch Chair) who says &#...Another member here (and Branch Chair) who says 'RISK MY MONEY'!! PLEEEEEEASE!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-90759156089176700192014-09-25T17:45:58.163+01:002014-09-25T17:45:58.163+01:00WTF !! No JR i am gutted and very angry. I am up ...WTF !! No JR i am gutted and very angry. I am up for an EM to push JR forward .. We need to fight to the bitter end and take this battle on. I don't agree we let this happen I have been very active in my campaigning. The only thing I will say is if Dino had been voted chair last year we woujd not have been in this place now .. The top table say, 'we don't want to risk member's money'. Well I say 'let the members decide that for themselves. !!' If JR is not launched napo will lose a lot of members . And given what I've seen from an nps perspective , napo will have limited powers re negotiation with rules and directives from 'The Cabinet!'. when nps napo members realise this? They may think twice about staying with napo. <br /><br />It will be interesting at the agm to see mr L explain why no JR, given his war cry last year .. That he was laying down the foundations for a JR. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-72708991883359432372014-09-25T16:30:15.429+01:002014-09-25T16:30:15.429+01:00Napo Greater London - in their Facebook page have ...Napo Greater London - in their Facebook page have linked to a 2 year old Guardian article - and added this apposite comment: -<br /><br />"How passive acceptance and lack of critical debate about public service privatisation has allowed companies like G4S to prosper"<br /><br />The article begins : -<br /><br /><br />" How G4S is 'securing your world'<br /><br />Budgetary pressure, political will and the lack of a debate over public service privatisation has seen G4S grow exponentially<br /><br /> Matthew Taylor <br /> The Guardian, Wednesday 20 June 2012 19.37 BST "<br /><br /><br />http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jun/20/g4s-securing-your-world-policing<br /><br /><br />It is worth re reading as a reminder of the extent of Privatisation already in public services - especially the CJS - much of it advanced by the Labour Party, when in Government!<br />Andrew_S_Hattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115192522317353139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-85688062592455506862014-09-25T15:49:29.329+01:002014-09-25T15:49:29.329+01:00I agree with your analysis. It has been a story of...I agree with your analysis. It has been a story of member apathy. Napo knows this and that's probably had a bearing on their own perceptions of accountability at Chivalry Road. If the membership cannot become agitated about TR and the concerns that have been expressed about managing risk in the new structures, then no wonder the public are disengaged. Napo finds that 90% of staff polled are alarmed and depressed by TR, but, as Grayling has highlighted, that was based on 10% of the workforce. Despite a disgruntled minority, the silent majority can be recruited in support of Grayling's stance. Why such apathy? Maybe you can find faults with the effete Napo leadership, but in my view the local branches have been degraded over the years. The NEC has neither time or teeth to represent the membership and, anyway, that's difficult when apathy is widespread. As the membership chooses to mimic a herd, so they will be herded and be rebranded as those in power decree. TR will be the future. Napo will pension itself off and merge with another union. Napo should never have gone out on a limb – without Unison. The unions could not work to a joint strategy and that was the beginning of the end. You can only fight ideology with ideology and I think the unions lack ideological leadership. Not all, as I think the RMT and PCS have ideological leadership, but elsewhere, in varying degrees, pragmatism prevails.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-83318365666247059092014-09-25T14:14:35.801+01:002014-09-25T14:14:35.801+01:00Hear hear!Hear hear!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-6018402113616861812014-09-25T12:55:15.965+01:002014-09-25T12:55:15.965+01:00Thanks Joanna for your prompt reply.I can't ge...Thanks Joanna for your prompt reply.I can't get to AGM this year but am willing to help pen an EM if needed.As to other 2 posters personally I refute that this mess is of my making or indeed other members Iknow. If we still believe the changes have created a less safe structure I think we should continue with protest and campaign. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8578343158425987632.post-10641964715681094992014-09-25T12:22:29.728+01:002014-09-25T12:22:29.728+01:00Anon at 11.30 - I have contacted the lawyer to ask...Anon at 11.30 - I have contacted the lawyer to ask those questions and will let you know when he gets back to me. With regard to the last two comments, I don't think any members are being given any hope, false or otherwise, but I don't feel like rolling over quite yet although I can understand the attraction of moving on.Joanna Hughesnoreply@blogger.com